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Book about the white working class

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by studegator, Apr 15, 2024.

  1. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    very good article by Matt Taibbi.
    The Real Book About the "White Working Class"

    MT: Let’s cut to the political aspect of this. Trump in 2016 went to a lot of places that were struggling. He visited devastated areas and people would come down from the hills to watch. It wasn’t so much that he had convincing solutions to anything that they were going through. He was just paying attention. Then he started adding bits to his stump speech. “Don’t you see how bad it is? The jobs are going everywhere. Opiates are a disaster, right?” And then people would look up and see stories in the media saying, “Well, it’s really not economics that’s driving this, these people are just racist.” It felt like a double whammy, a double insult. Isn’t that a pretty easy political cycle to break just by talking? By listening?
     
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  2. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    The opiates issue is another that always gets my interest. It is absolutely correct that the effect of opiates has been devastating, largely in these communities. And I agree that empathy and treatment are the correct public policy responses.

    But man in the 80s that was not the impulse with crack. Then it was a pure law enforcement approach, with zeal.
     
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  3. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    NWO sheeple don't.
     
  4. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Two problems, just with that passage you quoted, are (1) Obama had a roaring economy with full employment and the stock market growing about 300% at the end of his terms, so the "it's a bad economy" angle Trump was playing made no sense, and anyone who looked the economic news would know that.

    And (2), it's undeniable that Trump tried like hell to attract the votes of racists, sexists, LGBT haters, bigoted and nationalist voters. Trump even pretended he didn't know who David Duke was when given the opportunity to dismiss his endorsement. And that was clear from the amount of Nazi, Racists, Proud Boys, anti Muslim, anti Jewish, etc. groups that marched for Trump. And Trump embraced them .... "There are good people on both sides" ... "Proud boys need to stand by" ... It's not hard to see why, "I'm not a racist/sexist/bigot, I just vote for the guy that coddles them" isn't a good look, and those people should be embarrassed.
     
  5. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I'm not sure the OP is going to agree with the authors argument that the Democrats should go in on social democracy, unionism and opposition to big money rather than 'get less woke' to appeal to WWC voters
     
  6. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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  7. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    I'm pretty sure that when the media covered discontent in coal mining towns, for example, it talked about poverty, drugs, etc. It didn't attribute it all to racism.
     
  8. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    This was what peaked my interest as I worked for a successful company in the 80’s that was bought by KKR and broken up into pieces. The customers didn’t win, the workers did’t win, but the wall street raiders won big time.
    I’ll never forget Ross Perot later on talking about the damage NAFTA would do to American companies and employees—-a big “sucking sound”

    “Middle America has been screwed over in a hundred ways since the mid-nineties and even before. An even partial list of the scams I had to cover in the post-’08 period would turn this review into a novel, but a lot of investment schemes targeted middle-class, suburban and rural Americans (elderly urban minorities were also common marks) with a little bit of savings, and/or the institutional investors that held their retirement monies. The passage of NAFTA led to a lot of job losses, but a bigger cause is a phenomenon I’ve covered here and which Leopold tackles: stock buybacks.

    Buybacks happen when big companies use cash or borrow funds to buy their own stock on the marketplace, then retire the shares. Both the buying and the retiring tend to drive share prices up, which is a good thing for executives compensated in company stock, but less advantageous for those not privy to the company’s plans. For this reason, the SEC barred buybacks as manipulation until 1982, when the administration of Ronald Reagan instituted rule 10b-18, creating a “safe harbor” for such transactions. Leopold, examining a Department of Defense study of what contractors did with excess cash when they had it, writes:
     
  9. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The problem with these statements: we are currently at nearly full employment with inflation largely driven by the lack of workers to fill jobs. The unemployment rate during the "good ole days" was much higher.
     
  10. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    When were the “good old days” ? When KKR was raiding, then breaking up corporations then selling the pieces off, thus laying off their work force ?
     
  11. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    So when was America great?
     
  12. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    The problem was, and to a degree still is, that the Democrats are a combination of a moderate pro business technocrat wing, and a socialist leaning identity politics wing. A pro labor culturally conservative (or even moderate) presence was pretty small.

    I think it’s simplistic to try to assign blame to one of the other. It was both. Certain areas of the country did not benefit to the degree urban areas did, and that created both economic and cultural resentments.

    In terms of listening, sure that is great, but Hillary Clinton trying to convince coal miners they would be ok just didn’t ring very true.
     
  13. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    While she wasn't very empathetic when she tried to convince the miners that they would be OK, the reality is that most of the coal mining jobs disappeared much more so as the result of technology (far fewer miners are required to produce a ton of coal now than it was the case decades ago) and the availability of cheap natural gas thanks to fracking the consequence of which was the replacement of old coal fired power plants by newer gas fired plants obsolete than "liberal" environmental policies. Although he was indeed effective at convincing them that he could restore jobs in the industry Trump essentially conned miners when he in effect promised them that he could turn back the clock. The same was also true of the steel industry. While imports did reduce demand for American-produced steel far fewer workers are required now to produce a ton of steel than were required in the '70s when obsolete steel mills were being shut down. No matter how much he promised or promises to do so Trump cannot turn back the clock.
     
  14. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I'm not sure its a big mystery TBH, the Democrats have made gains among the college educated (even before Trump), so that is going to add a somewhat progressive/pro management bent to the party which is going to conflict with the trade unionists who also support the party. The people that largely control and shape the messaging (not to mention run for office) are from the former group. I tend to agree with the author that people from a WC background arent any more conservative than the average person for the most part, there is nothing really about their attitudes that makes them more likely to be conservative other than where they live and how their parents voted. The biggest conservatives in rural and urban areas are always going to be the wealthiest and oldest demographics, just like everywhere else. The Trumpiest guy in rural America is probably a 55 year old GC who drives an $80k pickup and pretends he's a hillbilly on the weekends because he likes guns and wears camo, not a guy who works at a meatpacking plant (I mean that guy is probably a 16 year old El Salvadoran TBH). These guys exist in cities and suburbs too, but maybe only the rural guy gets coded as "working class" because he lives on a spread of land instead of a grotesque McMansion.
     
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  15. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    I feel like there's constant concern - from both sides - about making sure that "White Working Class" voters/Republicans are heard, understood, and even told how much they are valued. It's laudable to care about them just on a human level, of course, so I'm not against seeing journalists and pundits hanging out with White folks in diners and trying to learn about their concerns and dreams. Having said that, does the same pressure exist for the media and the political establishment to understand working class voters who are not White? They have had to deal with many of the same issues (and likely more) such as loss of manufacturing jobs, the wealth gap, higher costs of living, etc.
     
  16. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Other than the simple angle of white people getting the most attention from media in general, it is a group that is a vital voting block for both parties. None of them can afford to lose too many votes from that block to win the EC as it stands. It does seem to me that the focus is almost exclusively in red or red-leaning states. I'm sure there are plenty of conservatives in New England, but I'm not sure Dems are struggling with working class voters there in what are pretty demographically white places too (Where you live is still a powerful driver of how you vote). Biden has done well among white voters too, certainly better than Clinton did. But I feel like 2016 is the election that never ended, even though we are literally going to redo the 2020 election.
     
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  17. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    My frustration with this issue is that white rural voters are already favored in our political system by structure. The structure of the Senate and the Electoral College and even general federalism all favor white rural power.

    That is not to say that white rural frustration is not real or that life is easy. Privilege does not mean your life is effortless; it just means you have less obstacles than similarly situated individuals.

    But since this is a political board, it's fair to note that you would usually address a discrete group that faced problems that could be addressed by public policy by considering if they are underrepresented. But in this case it is the exact opposite. They already have disproportionate power as a group. And yet they still grieve that they are collectively disadvantaged.
     
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  18. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    You are also answering the question of "why do people always talk about them." Perhaps this is an indictment of the American system in general, even overrepresentation in government and outsized media attention fails to deliver the goods for struggling people. Because its just geography voting at the end of the day.
     
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  19. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Well said - absolutely