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Boeing 737 Max:”designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys”

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by WarDamnGator, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Apparently the investigation into the 737 Max is turning up a trove of very troubling emails, including concerns expressed by employees and claims that regulators were “bullied” into ignoring normal safety testing protocols.

    A Boeing employee asked a colleague in a February 2018 message: “Would you put your family on a MAX simulator-trained aircraft? I wouldn’t.” His co-worker replied: “No.”

    In the same exchange, one of the employees says: “Our arrogance is our demise.”


    “I want to stress the importance of holding firm that there will not be any type of simulator training required to transition from the [older model of the 737] to MAX,” read a message from Boeing’s 737 chief technical pilot in March 2017 to another employee. “Boeing will not allow that to happen. We’ll go face to face with any regulator who tries to make that a requirement.”

    Another message from a Boeing employee later that year called an undisclosed party “morons” for ordering a type of cockpit display and said India’s aviation regulator “is apparently even stupider.”


    'Damning' Boeing messages reveal efforts to manipulate regulators of 737 Max
     
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  2. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

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    Title pretty much says it all.
     
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  3. wgbgator

    wgbgator King of the Tuck Tuck Sound Premium Member

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    A Van Down By the River
    Maybe we shouldn't bring all those manufacturing jobs back if we're just going to build death traps
     
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  4. g8trjax

    g8trjax GC Hall of Fame

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    Monkeys? Damn, someone has stepped it.
     
  5. mutz87

    mutz87 Leon's getting larger VIP Member

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    Can't say I'm surprised, sadly.

    Question: Will any of you fly on a 737 Max once or if it is deemed safe?

    I will not.
     
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  6. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    50 years of success made them arrogant and complacent.
    Like all large organizations their pendulum will now swing all the way to the other side. While the max will scare the hell out of me, it will probably be the safest plane in the sky if it comes back.
     
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  7. GatorNorth

    GatorNorth Premium Member Premium Member

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    "A Boeing employee asked a colleague in a February 2018 message: “Would you put your family on a MAX simulator-trained aircraft? I wouldn’t.” His co-worker replied: “No.”

    In the same exchange, one of the employees says: “Our arrogance is our demise.”

    From profits to prophecy in one email.

     
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  8. mutz87

    mutz87 Leon's getting larger VIP Member

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    This was a failure--basically criminal in my mind--of both Boeing and the FAA.
     
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  9. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    I think you can make the argument for unbridled arrogance, but criminality will be hard to get to. They basically believed their planes were far better than they were. Far safer than they were, and made that case to the FAA who believed them.
    The reason they haven’t gone out of business is because of the safety and reliability of their previous planes, orders are still flowing in on those, which kind of makes that case. But the real test for them will be their next new model. Who is going to jump in first and buy it? That will be fascinating to watch.
     
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  10. mutz87

    mutz87 Leon's getting larger VIP Member

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    Agree, but corporate criminality is often protected by authorities not having the will to take on corporate crime, not because criminality did not occur or cannot be demonstrated. And even when it is taken on, companies are often forced to pay money rather than holding corporate leadership criminally responsible.
     
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  11. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    Crime pays if one commits crime bigly and yugely. Just factor the fines in as a cost of doing business and you're good to go. Not that I've ever seen that before. Sargent?
     
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  12. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Remember the report that the crew of a crashed jet could be heard reading from manuals, just prior to the crash, trying to figure out how to disable the automatic decent feature Boeing had installed? These emails look pretty bad when you have the Boeing execs puting their foot down against additional simulator training requirements for pilots of the older 737s. There were clearly new features they needed to know about.
     
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  13. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    I hate it for the victims, Boeing and the aircraft industry.
    Having worked for a manufacturer in the past myself it certainly does not surprise me.

    Tough run for the Seattle giant, - planes crashing, rockets failing, gee
    Not to worry though, Gov't will bail them out if it comes to it.

    Myself I can't get healthcare, affordable medicine, a bridge that doesn't make me nervous or a decent public education for my kid.
     
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  14. ElimiGator

    ElimiGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Take the hit Boeing. Fix your problems or be done. There should be a requirement that maiden flights be filled with the engineers, trainers, and executives who helped build and design the plane! ...the FAA has shown culpable negligence as well imo.
     
  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It's a bit of a warning for auto-piloted cars, which are a couple decades behind the aircraft manufacturers. The airlines have gotten very good at developing automatic features on a plane to have a computer fly it without human help, or correct bad input from a pilot, but that doesn't exempt them from the need for extensive testing.

    I would fly on a 737 MAX if this feature were disabled. There is another safety issue with the 737 that is common with the previous models of the 737: thin skin. The outer shell of the plane is thinner than almost every other aircraft out there. The reason is that the engines in the 1960's were not that powerful, so Boeing had to reduce weight everywhere they could, including on the skin, so the plane could take off from standard runways at the time. It worked well enough in the 60's. Every once in a blue moon, a section of roof rips off of a 737, and whoever is not wearing a seat belt in the immediate area gets sucked out. Why does Boeing not upgrade to thicker skin? It would require a major re-design that would be "too expensive". It's mind boggling because all of the other Boeing planes (747, 757, 767, 777, and 787) have thicker skin, so they know how to do it.

    Aloha Airlines Flight 243 - Wikipedia

    Is Boeing's 737 an Airplane Prone to Problems?