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Biden Revives Republican Party

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Jan 14, 2021.

  1. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    Or the sensible ones are ignore the "q" faction who I feel are outliers.

    Maybe that's just my take, or maybe I'm more of a Moderate.
    Then again I'm registered NPA, perhaps at 19 I had some wisdom after all....
     
  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I dont know if he was saying $12 period, or $12 hour. Whatever the case, it should be 100% illegal to work for less than the minimum wage. The only reason I brought up enslavement is that if people believe you shouldnt be allowed to enslave or indenture yourself, then what's the difference between saying you cant do that vs. saying you cant work for $1 hour, or whatever bar you want to set? In any case, you are protecting the worker. But I'm no minimum wage absolutist. Give me high union density across the entire labor force, and I'd be happy to abolish a minimum wage law. Indeed, some of those Nordic countries dont have a minimum wage, but their labor force has plenty of negotiating power. Ours doesnt, so until then, $15/hr minimum or GTFO.
     
  3. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    why not $20/hr.... where do we get a magic $15 hour?
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    For a national minimum? It should be $20 an hour at some point (it should be tied to inflation or COLA not unlike SS). Florida just passed a $15 minimum, so that seems like a pretty good floor for the nation. I mean, if the minimum wage in 1968 was simply adjusted for inflation, it would be about $12.00/hour, right now, and the proposals all phase $15 in over like 5 years.
     
  5. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    So what is the calculation based on?
    Are there hard numbers or is this just some number to make people feel good?
    The other thing to consider is tax implications.
    I don't know what the line is for a single person but at some point you start paying taxes and the increased salary is lessened by income taxes that weren't paid before...

    Maybe this is just a way for the GOV to bring in more FICA....
     
  6. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    If you inflation adjusted from when Fight for Fifteen started in 2012, it would be like $17.00 today. In essence the demand here is for the minimum wage to keep pace with inflation, at minimum. Ok, there might be tax implications. But as has been pointed out in many other threads of on the subject, lower minimum wages end up meaning more people with full time employment qualify for SNAP and other assistance. The alternative to your tax implications is the government subsidizing employer's low wages via federal assistance programs.
     
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  7. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    Not trying to be argumentative here, I should have asked the question better.

    Not discussing changes due to inflation.

    What is being factored in to say what a "living wage" is?

    Food?
    Shelter?
    Clothing?
    A cell phone?

    Those are the minimums IMHO.

    Other stuff is extra, in addition I know of nobody who when starting out didn't have a roommate, (unless they lived at home).

    It just seems like some people will find the lowest point and are content to just get by. Unless there is some incentive to do a bit extra they never move up.

    If the minimum wage goes up I guess they will no longer qualify for SNAP etc.... until that minimum level goes up?
     
  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Are we talking about a minimum wage or a 'living wage?' Two different concepts. A $15 federal minimum wage probably wouldn't be a living wage in many places. But how many jobs pay the federal minimum? In Florida lots of bigger employers are well above the state and federal minimums (for now). For me anyway the basic idea is to increase the minimum wage, and thereby increase the bargaining power of all workers, particularly on the bottom end of the labor market. Ultimately though, if you had to say what's a "living wage" it would be an amount that would put you above the poverty line by working full time. Obviously, there are some inadequacies WRT how poverty is measured (and being above the poverty line might actually set you back if you lose subsidies and federal assistance), but at least its a measure.
     
  9. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    But isn't that a BIG part of the argument on why the minimum wage needs to rise? Because people can't live on it now?

    Otherwise why should there be a minimum, the labor market and supply and demand will set the price.

    If I'm working in an ice cream shop and I'm producing x revenue why should I be paid the same as a guy working as a mechanic producing 10x revenue?
     
  10. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    There should be a minimum if the labor force lacks any bargaining power to push wages up to meet the cost of living. If we had a high density union work force, we wouldn't need minimum wages. The labor force would basically set the floor, even for workers not represented by a union. But for the most part, capital has captured the government in a way to where laws and courts favor employer's interests over workers. So, the least we can do is boost the wage floor, because its not set up to boost itself.
     
  11. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    If we up wages shareholders make less. Who will give to the poor pacs?
     
  12. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    Or people don't want to be in a union so that's why there are less unions...
     
  13. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

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    The ultra wealthy, the same ones that do now......;)
     
  14. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Whatever the cause for union decline is, its weakened the bargaining power of workers and necessitated minimum wage laws
     
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