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Besides Henderson, any other players likely to sit out the OB?

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by oneatatime, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. mcorsair15

    mcorsair15 GC Legend

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    Im looking at it from a fan perspective, not the players. If I’m a player, I’m playing. If I’m sitting on the couch which most of us are, then I’m just not as upset if we lose because The outback bowl (unless it’s a N.Y.6 bowl game or above), it doesn’t affect me.
     
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  2. WhattaGator

    WhattaGator Ever Vigilant Psycho Mod Moderator VIP Member "Cook Shack Chef"

    Gotta disagree there....

    If I'm a Gator fan, and I'm rooting for oiur team to be the best..including gettng recruits, to make our team even better, and get to that National Championship level....that takes winning every game possible.

    Then, yeah, I'm sure gonna care whether we win or not...If we had only made it to the Outback Bowl..I want us to WIN the thing....I want my team to make it to the NY6 Bowls, then the CFPs, and ultimately win the freakin' thing.....and that comes with winning every game you possibly can.
     
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  3. mcorsair15

    mcorsair15 GC Legend

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    Okay
     
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  4. Brodeur

    Brodeur GC Hall of Fame

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    Mullen didn't stick around for his last bowl game at Miss St when he had another job to get ready for. If bowls aren't important enough for highly paid coaches to stay, why are we surprised and upset players also skip bowl games who are also looking ahead to prep for their next (and first lucrative) job?

    If you don't like players doing this, look at their coaches first. And that includes ours.
     
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  5. SewaneeGator

    SewaneeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Fair enough. Personally, I'm well past the point of wins or loses really effecting me one way or the other. But since much of the recent argument on this thread has been why the bowl games themselves are meaningless, my counterpoint is simply that they count as much as any other game. You play all games, then, to your best and, hopefully, to win. What that means and what that looks like may indeed differ between players and fans.
     
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  6. fda92045

    fda92045 All American

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    As fans, not only should we want the team to win, but we should want the players who suit up in O&B to be the most successful they can in life. And if that means missing a bowl game (that really doesn't mean that much) after they have given us their all for 3-4 seasons, I am certainly ok with that.
     
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  7. fda92045

    fda92045 All American

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    If CJ Henderson were to god forbid tear his ACL in the Orange Bowl, would there not be financial repercussions, likely in the millions of dollars?
     
  8. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    I get your point, but that's a little different. I think if coaches who change jobs had a choice, I think they'd prefer to coach their old team in the bowl game.

    But they really aren't given the choice by their new employer. There's usually about a 9 week period between when head coaches are hired and signing day. They really have no alternative other than start the new job, get their coaching staff in place as soon as possible and hit the recruiting trail hard. If they don't, the class suffers and so do their chances of success the next year.

    There are a lot of coaches, including I believe Norvell, who intend to try to find a way to do both and at least help the old team, but the time demands of the new job are too much and a half effort does more bad than good.
     
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  9. mcorsair15

    mcorsair15 GC Legend

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    Exactly! I think coaches stay only if they're in the playoffs. They're trying to get a jump on recruiting and the month of December is the only time they'll have to secure their future class on their new team.

    Everyone has their reasons, that's why I'm saying these bowl games don't really secure anything for us other than something to talk about for next year.
     
  10. TrueGator

    TrueGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe I'm not the only one on the island after all? Wilson and I welcome you all. Don't eat all the coconuts, please.
     
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  11. danmann65

    danmann65 GC Hall of Fame

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    Habit forming works. If you have a habit of winning in college it continues to build over time. An individual game is only important in establishing a habit. Practicing hard is a habit they usually pays off.
     
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  12. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    Right there with you - want some rum for your coconut?
     
  13. TrueGator

    TrueGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Aye, Skink, a wee bit o' Cap'n Morgan please?
     
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  14. Brodeur

    Brodeur GC Hall of Fame

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    Coaches absolutely have a choice, proven by the fact that some do decide to finish out the bowl with their old team. You're right that its a risk, there's potential negative consequences if they stick around for the bowl. But that's the exact scenario players find themselves in too; the likelihood of injury is much lower but the negative consequences are exponentially higher too (the coach gets paid at the new school even if he sucks, look at Willie T).

    The part that I'll never get is that fans who criticize players generally hold (relatively) unpaid kids that put their bodies on the line to higher standards than the very highly paid adults whose bodies aren't taking the physical abuse.. Coaches bail on their bowl games for the very legitimate reasons you mentioned, but we don't call them selfish and question their loyalty and character. It's just "part of the business". We save the selfish and lack of loyalty attacks for the players. It's bizarre to me.
     
  15. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    That determination is ultimately made by the hiring school, not the coach. That would be part of the contract negotiations. The coach may express a desire to stay and coach the bowl game and the hiring school would determine if what they'd potentially lose in recruiting is worth it.

    A coach with all the negotiations leverage might get away with it but there's no way UF would have allowed Mullen to stay and coach MSU's bowl game, unless maybe it was CFP playoffs. It happens but it's not common.

    I would never criticize a kid for their decision. I always want what's best for the kid's future. There's no right decision for everyone.

    A kid who's a sure top 10 pick probably doesn't have much incentive to play a bowl game, unless maybe it's a CFP game. They don't have much more to prove. It's not just the risk of injury in the game itself but the extra 2 weeks of full contact practices.

    But for other kids, a bowl game is an opportunity to improve their draft status. Yes, there are risks but there are also risks from sitting out. NFL teams may view it as a player who's less of a team player or leader. Or that they may be inclined to not want to play injured. And of course your current team is probably going to feel like you bailed on them. It's all part of the decision equation for each guy.

    I don't see it as holding players to a higher standard than coaches. That analogy comparison would be a coach who's told by the school they're not going to renew his contract at the end of the season deciding to resign prior to the bowl game. Not sure if that's ever happened.
     
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  16. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    ^This

    The critical role of the head coach of a team is in a different league than the role of a player on a team, no matter what player that is. All this yapping about comparing players to coaches is so freaking non-sequitur it's ridiculous.
     
  17. Each situation is unique. Some players could use the additional practice and national exposure that comes with the Orange Bowl. Some players are nursing injuries and do not want to risk aggravating an injury in the Orange Bowl. I am okay with just about anyone sitting out the Orange Bowl. Coaches, on the other hand, are bound by entirely different rules. If a coach is hired away before a bowl game, the losing school is under no obligation whatsoever to keep that coach for the bowl game, and the gaining school is under no obligation whatsoever to allow that coach to remain at his old position when he should be hitting the recruiting trail for the new position.
     
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  18. BJ1888

    BJ1888 GC Hall of Fame

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    So, despite the coach's role being so much more "critical" that it's "in a different league" than a single player's, it's cool for a coach to bail on his team but not a player?

    That's not how employment contracts work. If a coach is breaking his contract to leave, there are always conditions to that (most notably a buyout paid to the school). In Taggart's agreement with Oregon, Willie Taggart contract, he was not permitted to terminate the contract during the season unless Oregon agreed to it ("termination by Coach must occur at a time other than during the football season (including post-season), unless both parties mutually agree otherwise." - 6.3.b, p.11).

    Mullen's contract with Mississippi State, http://media.ledger-enquirer.com/static/SEC-Coaching-Contracts/Mississippi-State/Dan-Mullen-2016.pdf, said that the Board of Trustees would "fix the time and conditions of termination." (section 4.) His contract with the UAA, https://2michy3wy0l30d34041dt1et-wp...ploads/sites/3/2019/07/Dan-Mullen-Florida.pdf, says "the Association and Coach shall in good faith mutually determine the effective date of the termination." (p.23)
     
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  19. TJHooker

    TJHooker Senior

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    Coming in late here. Bowl games matter. A lot of our pre-season ranking this year was predicated on the fact that we "finished strong" last year. This pre-season ranking put us in position to get to the CFP. If you want the counter example. Minnesota did not start the season highly ranked, and would have had a hard time getting into the playoff as a 1 loss team, we would have been a shoe in.
     
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  20. Claygator

    Claygator GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think the two situations are comparable. If Henderson was leaving to go directly to play with an NFL team, and that conflicted with the bowl game, ok. But he isn't.