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Bernie Sanders is a Communist

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Gator715, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

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    I was born in 1985 and resent the fact that you are calling me almost 40. I am almost 35:ninja2:
     
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  2. g8trjax

    g8trjax GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    If you asked me in 2008 or 2012 if I would ever vote for Hillary Clinton, I would've laughed in your face...

    I didn't know what to expect from Trump in 2016... So I voted for Hillary Clinton...

    Overall, I think Trump has been a net good for America... He won me over while in office... I didn't like him at all when he was campaigning in 2016...

    I'm not claiming to be a moderate... Most people probably wouldn't think I am... But Trump wasn't exactly a traditional conservative candidate either... nor did he have a record to judge him on...
     
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  4. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Only socialism can force an oil-rich country to resort to eating their dogs...
     
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  5. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    This video is disturbing to me...

    This person is someone who's missing the point...

    She concedes that Castro has committed countless human rights atrocities... but equates him to every other world leader... like he commits human rights atrocities like every other world leader...

    Yeah...

    Castro eliminated private property, confiscated wealth, imprisoned people who spoke out against him, executed them... and indoctrinated his youth into gratitude for the only system that they ever knew...

    There was no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press, no right to bear arms, no freedom of religion... Their access to information is limited by the government...

    Whatever the government wants in Cuba.... it gets... yet she calls the US the oppressors...

    EDIT: And no... there are certain things that should be considered outside the Overton Window of reasonable discussion... The suggestion that Castro was just a normal world leader who actually did some good things is one of them... Same with Adolf Hitler... There are certain leaders who are just monsters... and history should remember them as such...
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
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  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    What is remarkable is that she thinks that Castro was automatically a great leader because there were people in Cuba who appeared to mourn his death (while Cubans outside of Cuba celebrated it), and yet she thinks that western media manipulates everything. When Kim Jong Il died, North Koreans howled with "sadness", partly because they could be thrown in prison (or worse) if they didn't. Some of the crying was, no doubt, due to the uncertainty related to the death of a long-standing leader, but even that does not make him a good leader. This cult of personality enforced on the populace seems to be a fixture of dictatorships and communism. If conditions in Cuba were so good, there wouldn't be so many people willing to risk their lives to escape, and that's why there are so many Cubans living in south Florida, and so many Cubans dying between Cuba and Florida. And the poor living conditions were not just economic--there was also political repression, neighbors spying on neighbors, etc.
     
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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think most people saw the less appealing side of Trump. However, he was the only candidate that appeared to understand the anger and disappointment that many Americans have towards the federal government. He managed to sum it up by referring to "business as usual in D.C." as the Swamp, and make claims that he was going to drain the Swamp. These are the same emotions that are driving the British toward Brexit, which was and is a much bigger mistake than any and all of Trump's policies. Politicians (here and in Britain) only listened to the wealthy people and corporations who financed their campaigns, and their policies catered to wealthy people and corporations. Trump's policies still cater to corporations, in the form of corporate tax cuts, but that has managed to encourage hiring and capital spending by U.S. corporations, so it has helped middle class people and encouraged manufacturing in the U.S.
     
  8. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    She believes the reaction from the country that kills those who oppose the government is more genuine than the country that promotes free speech...

    This isn’t complicated...

    people mourned his death in Cuba:

    A. Because most people at the point of his death were brought up and indoctrinated by that system... it’s not like the US where you can read all the anti-American crap you want... in Cuba, anything that challenges that regime and Communism in general is prohibited...

    B. The more obvious answer, because if you celebrate his death, you’ll be either jailed or killed...
     
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  9. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Not a fan of Bernie, but he will never turn the US into a Cuban style socialist state. His model is the European welfare state and between Republicans and moderate Democrats he will not be able to go even that far, and it's socialist economy aside, there is one politician who would if he could turn the US into a Cuban style state politically with a one-party authoritarian government and that politician is not Bernie Sanders. Hint: he's a big fan of makeup that makes it appear as if he has an orange complexion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
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  10. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Why hasn't he done it, already?

    He's been president for almost 4 years...
     
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  11. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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  12. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    While I agree that Sanders isn't likely to do much if he even gets elected, I wouldn't necessarily say he is aligned with the European style democratic socialism. He refuses to condemn the governments in Cuba and Venezuela on economic policy grounds, not just authoritarianism. He called for nationalization of industries in the 1970s and visited the USSR in the 80s. He broadly condemns private corporations and wants to turn them into funding mechanisms for his social policies. In Europe, while you have welfare heavy policy, there isn't the same antagonistic relationship between industry and the government. The tax burden is on the people, who vote to pay more for these programs. Corporate taxes were significantly in the EU before the tax cuts and are about the same overall now. The Europeans see their industry as the funding mechanism that fuels their economic prosperity, not some evil group of goons out to screw everyday Americans. The classist arguments put forth by Sanders and Warren are probably more comparable to those put forth by revolutionary movements rather than in democratic societies.
     
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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I know a Cuban woman who's father was a military hero of some sort in Cuba, so his family was somewhat immune to reprisals. At some point, he fell out of favor with the government (and he was more aware of the abuses of power associated with the gov't than the average person), so his family started talking bad about Castro around the dinner table. Well, this woman's daughter took some of this attitude to elementary school, and would cover her ears when the teacher would sing the praises of Castro. The school immediately started abusing the child to get her to re-think her opinion of Castro, and the girl stopped talking for a couple of years. The government also started visiting the house to see why the family was not doing a proper job of re-educating the child. The woman eventually had to take her family out of Cuba before the situation got worse.
     
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  14. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    10 minutes after I originally posted I added the caveat "if he could". He has already tried to use the DOJ to prosecute one of his perceived opponents and is obsessed with prosecuting his opponent in the last election and would probably go further if he could.
    McCabe, an ex-FBI official targeted by Trump, not charged
    DOJ drops leak case vs. McCabe, judge said White House involvement like a ‘banana republic’
    Mueller Report Reveals Trump’s Fixation on Targeting Hillary Clinton

    I would also add that he has tried to circumvent the will of Congress by delaying aid to Ukraine and by diverting funds appropriated by Congress for other purposes to the construction of his great wall on the Southern border.

    An interesting comparison between Trump and a certain Latin American dictator (not Castro but someone who is trying to model himself after Fidel).
    What Trump Has in Common With Venezuela’s Maduro | Washington Monthly

    BNamericas - Trump and Maduro: Two sides of the same coin?
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  15. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    You cannot compare the authoritarianism of Trump with the authoritarianism of Maduro...

    You just can't...

    Every president in the last century has broadened the power of the presidency. Sanders would do the same... The difference between him and Trump is he only seems to have positive things to say about the Castros and Maduro... And he philosophically seems to align with them... Trump has said positive things about Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin, but Trump isn't an ideologue... and his praise for them only seems to come on the grounds that they seem to praise him... not on ideological grounds...

    If you're going to say Trump aligns with Putin and Kim Jong Un as an authoritarian... Trump doesn't silence his opponents... He doesn't indoctrinate his youth... He doesn't incarcerate his opponents... Sanders is an ideologue, has specifically said he's wanted to nationalize all of these major industries... calls himself a socialist... and has praised communist regimes such as the USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela...

    If you think Trump can't be more authoritarian than he is... I really don't know what to tell you... Perhaps he needs people to say "no, Mr. President, you can't do that," but President Trump has reasonable boundaries regarding authoritarianism...
     
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  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Apparently, young people are not educated to the dangers of communism or socialism. Our education system has failed them. While they have experienced terrorism in the news, they have no experience with the threat of nuclear annihilation from the USSR, nor saw the collapse of the USSR from poor central planning and an unmotivated workforce. Therefore, communist and totalitarian societies do not seem so bad. They assume that because the U.S. is currently the strongest economy in the world, we could change economic systems and still be the most successful.

    Young People Don’t Care About the U.S.S.R.

     
  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Name a president that has never tried to circumvent the will of Congress. Obama tried to circumvent the will of Congress--he was, by your definition, a dictator wanna-be.
     
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  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Bernie attacks fellow democrat (and Univ. of California Santa Cruz president) Janet Napolitano to support the right of grad students to go on strike in violation of their collective bargaining agreement. Napolitano fired 54 teaching assistants after they failed to turn in grades for their students.

    University of California Santa Cruz fired 54 grad students for withholding grades. They were striking for higher pay - CNN

    Looks like Donald Trump isn't the only one who can make an ass of himself on Twitter. Sounds like Napolitano already negotiated in good faith, but the grad students did not.
     
  19. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe I missed it but I do not recall Obama ever diverting funds appropriated for a specific purpose by Congress to another purpose previously rejected by Congress. And Obama has come no where close to what Trump has done.