Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by intimigator1, Jan 31, 2020.
That's your perception and I can appreciate that. My perception is much different.
Wait for the subpoenas to make their way through courts and it's possible the ruling comes down weeks before the election. That's a problem. Waiting could also mean rulings don't finish until after the election. Trump loses, and the rulings are moot. Trump wins and the call that impeachment is just an attempt to overturn the election become deafening.
The House's best option was to proceed when they did. Still not a great option, but better than the alternatives.
Deliciously ironic coming from the side who for 2 years unwaveringly believed Trump was a Russian double agent working for Putin because Schiff and CNN told them so.
Maybe some of us believed that Trump was unduly influenced by Russia when he, himself, said that he thought Vladimir Putin was as credible as his own intelligence agencies, not because Adam Schiff or CNN told us.
Yeah but you all never took his actions into consideration.
On the record: The U.S. administration’s actions on Russia
Wrong on two fronts. Double agent has an actual meaning and I don’t ever recall that term being used, especially by Schiff. And he is at minimum a Russian asset. Any fair minded person can conclude that just from the public evidence, I.e. Helsinki, NATO, inner circle
You and I are about the same age as I enjoyed all the things you mentioned in your post. Graduated from HS in 78 and drove a 71 Barracuda. Loved that car. So I get where you are coming from. I don’t like Trump... never did. And I really don’t like him now. But whether you like it or not, he and all these other politicians are simply a
smaller segment of our general population. A general population that is more narcissistic, selfish, hateful... I could go on and on. And IT IS on both sides, Republican and Democrat. This is not a Republican problem, it’s a societal problem, and it ain’t going away. Manners, having some class, treating others fairly and with respect, went out the window long before Trump got into office. Don’t misunderstand... I am not sticking up for the man. But he didn’t start this mess. We all started this mess. You seem to want to place the blame squarely on the Republicans, yet the truth is we’re all to blame.
Which mad king are you talking about? GWB, Obama, or Trump? They all spent like drunken sailors. And no reasonable person would give much credit to Obama for the "economic recovery" that happened when he was king--er, president--just like no one in their right mind believes that Clinton created the internet economy, and no one in their right mind thinks that the sun came up this morning because Trump was president. If you want to give Obama credit for the economy, you need to be able to quote specific policies that he championed that improved the economy (and don't use Cash for Clunkers because that would be laughable).
You say that people can't afford health care? How can that be? Obamacare fixed all the nation's health care problems a decade ago! And no, Trump has done nothing substantial to roll back Obamacare. I don't know where you get this "marginalized" crap. "Oh, I can't get medical care for my disease--Trump has made fun of people who use Obamacare, and I don't want to be marginalized. I'm just going to sit here and die quietly."
I still don't know what a living wage is. Why don't you tell us.
Listen, I support increasing minimum wage with gradual annual increases (like $0.25/hr per year). But I see no reason to bankrupt the country with talk about a "living wage" that no one can clearly define and no society can clearly afford to pay. Sounds like something they might try in Venezuela or Argentina before the money printing presses break down from overuse.
There is only ONE person who was directly involved with Trump's intentions, and that's Trump. We have already established that what Trump did was not illegal. Yes, it may have been unethical, depending on what Trump's intentions were. All you are going to get from anyone else is things that Trump said, or his body language. The things that Trump said may or may not indicate his intentions. Impeachment is a little too serious an action to convict someone based on interpretations of his body language as Trump was floating his idiotic ideas among his inner circle. If you open that Pandora's Box for Trump, then you are opening it for every future president. Biden's potential presidency is already clouded with talk of impeachment.
I place the blame squarely on the person in office right now and the Republicans that are playing along. The issue at hand is the role of the President and the pure disregard for the office.
The morals etc are not any different now than when I was growing up as I see the same respect and disrespect as always. How is that to be measured?
71 Barracuda! 60's on the rear and 70's front with Kragar or Keystone rims?
Is there a problem on this board with quotations?
Not if you do it properly. Enclose the word QUOTE (caps) in brackets at the beginning of the quote and /QUOTE again caps in brackets at the end of the quote. Add any other text you want in the message after the closed quotation.
When replying to a message and inserting the quote you will see an example of how to do it.
I just see a lot of people quoting previous messages without responding. Maybe people are hitting reply and then posting immediately afterwards?
I've seen that as well and I have also seen where people are quoting messages and putting their reply inside of the quotation. My guess is it's Monday and the fingers and brain refuse to cooperate after the weekend.
Plum color, white interior, stock 340 4B with, you guessed it... Keystones.
What a fun car that was.
Not that I am aware of, are you having an issue?
Not me. Others, maybe? Like @carpeveritas said, it could be fat fingers.
1. Why the rush to impeach? The House investigation lasted 90 days. Watergate took over one year. Why didn't the House send subpoenas, force the formal invocation of Executive Privilege and then take it to the courts? Don't tell me, "there wasn't enough time." Either do the job correctly, and don't half-ass it, or don't do it at all.
2. Didn't the House Managers play and/or read deposition testimony to the Senate? If so, the "jury" heard evidence and saw documents.
3. Didn't we hear the House Managers claim that there was overwhelming evidence to remove Pres. Trump from office? If so, then why would additional witnesses be necessary?
Subpoenas were issues and are making their way through the courts. It could take months, if not a few years before the decisions are final. This left the House with three choices. Move forward with impeachment and not wait. Wait and have Trump potentially lose the election, making impeachment moot, which meant Trump would never be impeached. Or three, wait and have the subpoena decisions come down after Trump won reelection. Impeach after reelection and Trump is screaming the Ds are just trying to overturn the election.
Proceeding quickly wasn't a great choice. But can anyone argue it was worse than the other two choices?
Yes, but there were several witnesses blocked by Trump and who knows how many documents Trump refused to release. And again, wait for the subpoenas and most likely it only makes things worse.
There was enough evidence that showed Trump was guilty. Several R Senators even said so, including Rubio. But when you are impeaching a POTUS, the evidence level needs to be very high, and in any case, it's always best to have the most evidence possible as to leave no doubt. For example, some R's could still doubt the evidence due to lack of first hand witnesses. Bolton could have ended that doubt.
Now, ask yourself, as a jurist, wouldn't you want all the evidence possible as to make the most informed decision possible? And if you had the power to call more witnesses that could possibly fill in some holes in the case, wouldn't you make that call?