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Barr’s days numbered?

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Trickster, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

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    It’s beyond me how someone can pretend we have been bargained off to Russia. And to think, I never hear anyone speaking Russian. You?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2020
  2. FutureGatorMom

    FutureGatorMom Premium Member

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    Trump is the king of it. Those of you that are followers are being had and you just don't care! I find it fascinating actually. Just praying for my country to get that POS out of there. I see a fumigation in the WH future
     
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  3. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Right, illegal uneducated immigrants = good. Legal immigrant company starting entrepreneurs = bad. I think I would roll the dice.

    so no intelligent job creating legal immigrants. I get it now.

    Reach much?

    if it works.
     
  4. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

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    Not me - he is doing or trying to do most of the stuff I said needed to be done. The deficit is the only big thing he hasn't followed my beliefs too much.
     
  5. FutureGatorMom

    FutureGatorMom Premium Member

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    So these are your beliefs:

    1. Asking a foreign country to interfere with our elections - that's ok if HE thinks it's for the good of the country if it benefits his re election campaign.
    2. Doesn't believe in global warming so rolling back regs that help - I guess you don't either 95 Environmental Rules Being Rolled Back Under Trump
    3. Doesn't trust his own intelligence agencies, unless they tell him something he agrees with
    4. Had a "private" meeting with Putin - just him and an interpreter, no US official was there
    5. Put high $$ donors in important positions (See Besty Devos and Sondland)
    6. Getting corrupt and convicted friends pardoned or exonerated. Bet their victims love this
    7. Lies, lies and more lies - each and every day
    That's not all of it, it's been 3.5 years of total craziness and corruption. But glad we know that he has done MOST of the stuff you said needed to be done.

    He is pissed at Obama for the joke at that press dinner, so he's on the ultimate "pay back" by rolling back everything Obama did, even the food lunch program Michelle Obama implemented on her birthday no less. High class guy you got there. Hope you're enjoying the reality show, it's about to be canceled....if there IS A GOD.
     
  6. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    $19 billion in medical costs for illegals seems like a lot of money, and it is. But like any tax cost, you can't just look at the expenditures and say it's a waste without looking at what you get for your money. $19 billion works out to just under $60 a year for every American citizen. For my family of four, that works out to $240. That still is less than what the cost of milk would cost my family if illegal labor were deported and the price of milk doubled! And sorry, @DieAGator, I use the price of one gallon of dairy milk because it is still mostly ubiquitous today, relatively cheap, and easy to find information. The story would be the same if my family switched to soy milks, which come from beans, or almond milk, which comes from nuts. Why? Because 50% or more of all US crops are picked and processed by illegal immigrants, and prices on all food would go up if all immigrants were deported. Actually, if I switched away from dairy, the numbers would be more in my favor, as soy milk around here runs between $3 and $4/gallon, almond milk $4 to $5, and cow's milk is rarely more than $2.50/gallon.

    And it's not just agriculture that would be more expensive. Illegals make up a significant part of the labor force for construction, elderly care, landscaping, and maid/cleaning service. One business that employs a lot of maids is hotel and travel. Know what group has a huge travel budget? University athletic departments. Florida had a $140.9 million dollar overall budget for the Athletic Dept, and according to the article, about 30% of the budget is spent on travel. That's about $42 million, give or take. The article doesn't break down how much for lodging, but let's say it's $5 million. A rise in 10% in lodging costs because it now costs hotels significantly more to clean and turn rooms over would cost the UF AD $500,000. Where do you think they are going to look for that extra cash? Likely a rise in ticket prices. So now, instead of paying medical costs for illegals, you are paying more for football tickets because the rise in lodging/travel costs. Is this really a benefit for you? Not to mention, UF costs for feeding athletes would also skyrocket, as would concession costs. In the end, your family would pay more for things too, and you ask yourself, what's better for you and your wallet? $5/month to pay for medical costs for illegals, what would work out to hundreds a month to pay for things that now cost more?

    This is just basic economics. And if it were simple as replacing immigrant workers with citizen workers at the same costs, I'd be all for it. But it never works out that way. Instead, what you get are stories similar to this one from Mobile, AL. No workers means businesses close, and less money flows through communities. This causes other businesses to close, which is why economics warn of the troubles ahead with fewer immigrant labor. Nobody to pick crops means nobody to process them, and fewer workers with cash in their pocket to eat at the local diner. Who doesn't have anyone to wash the dishes anyway, so it closes down...and the cycle continues. As the last link states, most studies show immigrants are a net, fiscal positive.

    And we can show this again using DREAMers. Why use them? Because they are a significant sample at about 700,000, and since they are all working legally with their own ITIN numbers, they are easy to track and study. Again, over the next 10 years, CATO estimates they will bring in $91 billion in tax revenues. Again, DREAMers represent less than 10% of all immigrants in the work force. Simple math says that if you extrapolate what DREAMers provide annually, then illegals today are adding about $90 billion in tax revenue. Even if that number is dropped to $80 million, then that still covers 4X the payments we pay in illegal medical costs. Medical costs that could be reduced if we legalized the working immigrants and allowed them on ACA. Then, we could collect premium payments and there would be immigrants who would seek preventative care, cause they could afford it. Whereas today, the usually only seek higher cost care after they have been sick.

    How do I know the immigrants aren't on welfare? Because for the most part, all immigrants are not eligible. Sure, they could risk a fake ID to try and get the benefits, but the risks are usually higher than the reward. Get caught and it's jail followed by deportation back to where they came. If you walked with your family hundreds of miles for an opportunity to work in the US, would you risk this by attempting to fraud the US Government?

    We also have the stories from things like the Miss chicken plant raid and how ICE did a poor job as some kids, in school, came home to find out both parents were caught in the raid, and were now in custody. These kids are future, potential DREAMers, and their parents are already productive members of society with a job. And at unemployment less than 4%, it's not like citizens are having a tough time getting employed.

    Anti-immigration policies are at best, short-sided. The cost savings from not having to spend tax money on things like illegal healthcare are never going to be as large as anti-immigrant people hope for. Especially when you factor in the cost of deporting the immigrants. And the savings are significantly less than the added costs on food, travel, construction, etc. In short, we'd end up saving a millions, but spending billions. Again, short-sided.

    At worst, anti-immigration policies are a page out of the fascist playbook. Blame all woes on a minority group and rile up the masses. It's worked so far on the Trump train to authoritarianism, and he'll continue down that path until stop. To bring this back to topic, Barr might give some lip service to telling Trump to stop tweeting, but Barr's actions are in full support of Trump's authoritarianism. If Barr had any credibility left, he'd either step down or speak up and force Trump to fire him. But someone working for Trump with any credibility is rare, and if they have any, they don't last long in this administration.
     
  7. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Master of the straw man I see.

    Most people coming here to work are doing exactly that. Work. They aren't "creating jobs".

    The question is how that impacts our economy and American workers.

    American workers won't and can't productively fill most jobs that first gen Mexican immigrants fill. This is a supply and demand reality. We need workers to fill that demand and they are not here natively.

    However, many Americans can fill jobs requiring education, tech skills and soft skills. Bringing over other educated people to take those jobs at lower wages, or offshoring those jobs is good for C-level folks but it's bad for American workers.

    I am not saying eliminate all H1Bs. But we can cut them and we can tax the offshoring of jobs rather than subsidize it. Guess what would happen then? Americans fill the jobs.
     
  8. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    My late father was an “illegal uneducated immigrant”, and also a failed entrepreneur. Much smarter and a much better American than the one that used that phrase. Served in Patton’s Third Army
     
  9. flg8rfan

    flg8rfan All American

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    I’d love to hear your story why your family will be gone before 30 years. If that happens because your family has been paying illegal laborers without providing healthcare and paying taxes, your family is part of the problem.
     
  10. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    My family is Jewish. They escaped Europe because of authoritarian, fascist governments. I'm not sticking around here if we continue down that path.

    And sure, I don't check if my pool guy or lawn guy are documented. I also don't check to ensure all the produce I buy, hotels I stay in, or buildings I go into are untouched by illegal hands either. Do you?

    At least I've advocated for laws like the Gang of 8. Not just here, but contacting my Representatives and Senators. I'd prefer the illegals be given a pathway to citizenship and become legal, even if it costs me a little more. Because in the long run, it would still be less expensive than deporting all, and allow those workers a chance to be legal.

    What more can I do?
     
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  11. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    If the vetting standards of who can become POTUS, why should the standards of the landscapers and pool boy be stricter? My grandparents were immigrants. I have no idea nor no way of knowing if they were legal or not. I do know this, our country is a better place for them being in it. The net gain is huge.