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Barr’s days numbered?

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Trickster, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Because you don’t have an answer for the exorbitant cost that comes with harboring and nurturing cradle to grave an educated $12 an hour “laborer” and the cost that goes with it. If it were as simple as meeting demand- which is arbitrary and misleading- illegal labor would be a net gain and self funding but as you already know it’s not and it’s not by about $100 billion. What I’m saying, in part, is that if illegal labor and chain migration were profitable to society as a whole then Americans who pay far more in taxes should be receiving more, by far. But instead we are forced to subsidize illegal and largely uneducated laborers who are rewarded with public services that most Americans cannot receive.

    They play all kinds of games with public services and pay far less than their share of taxes. By FAR.
    you voted for Hillary so stop whining like you care. Besides, the Trump wipes his Butt with the Constitution is a liberal taking point, nothing more. It’s what you pull out of your own party’s dirty Butt when you lose.
    Wherever your do go hopefully they won’t have internet.
     
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  2. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    This is simply, 100% untrue. You've been shown the numbers before and refuse to believe. Again, this is the Libertarian Cato Institute's report on DREAMers, who represent only about 700,000 of the 8 million illegals in the work force. Deporting DREAMers would cost the US $351 billion in economic growth and $92.9 billion in tax revenues over the next 10 years. The average cost of deporting an immigrant is around $10,000. In what world is it economically justified to spend $7 billion on deporting people when those people will generate 13 times the cost of deporting them in tax revenues alone in the next 10 years? And all this before DREAMers hit their late 30s/early 40s, which are generally prime earning years.

    And what benefits do illegals get that citizens don't? Care to elaborate on the services, and back them up with numbers?

    We also get plenty of benefits from illegal labor, which makes up about 5% of our workforce at a time where unemployment is under 4%! We get much cheaper prices. It's estimated that without illegal labor, things like the price of milk would double. Having two, school-aged kids in the house, including a boy that is six, we go through about 3 gallons of milk a week. The average cost is a little over $2/gallon, but for simple math, if I had to pay $4/gallon, that would be an extra $312 a year I would have to pay on just milk alone. As the link suggests, fruits/veggies and meat processing would be in a similar bind. Doubling the cost of food would cost my family thousands a year.

    Bottom line is I'm happy to pay a little extra on property taxes to help school some illegal children. Why? Because their parents' labor is saving me thousands of dollars, and when that kid grows up, there is a very good chance he/she will be like his/her fellow DREAMers, and be productive, taxpaying citizens.

    There's good reasons why even Republican politicians from border states like McCain from Arizona, and W. Bush from Texas, supported plans like the Gang of 8 plan. Because these men understood what Reagan said about immigrants, that they bring the values of hard work and family, and generally make this country better.

    I care about OUR country. I care about her once, sacred institutions. I was no fan of Bill Clinton's tarmac meeting with Lynch, as I prefer the judiciary to be truly independent. But that's just one of the many differences between you and me. Just because you have a difference of opinion, doesn't mean you are any less of a person, or don't have something to offer your community and country. I'm also not blindly partisan and will refuse to support anyone, regardless of the letter in front of the name, if he/she is going to take us down the path of European style fascism. And Trump is on that authoritarian path moreso than any President in my lifetime.

    And all the while, you cheer, because your side is "winning." Just hope you or someone you care about is never in Trump's crosshairs. Because people like him are loyal to nobody but himself. And as long as the masses are cheering, Trump doesn't care who he hurts or targets.
     
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  3. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t want to deport dreamers and to me that’s not on the table. I want to stop illegal immigration and favor educated job creators from other countries. The rest of your post I don’t have time for at the moment.
     
  4. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    You have policy initiatives exactly backward in terms of the good of American workers.

    Educated Americans are largely under employed due to off shoring, tech changes and immigration of educated people from other countries.

    In the meantime, we need low skilled labor capable of doing physically and mentally arduous labor that almost no Americans are capable of doing, due to our largely soft sedentary lifestyles.

    We need worker visa programs for those types of jobs that Americans won't do and can't do, and we should be decreasing H1Bs and tax incentives to offshore jobs, so we can put Americans back to work in skilled better paying jobs/careers.
     
  5. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Back on topic, Barr is way out of control in doing the personal bidding of Trump.

    That Federal Prosecutors and judges are actively calling it out shows how scary these actions are to long term professionals in the DOJ and the US Court system.
     
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  6. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

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    I am about to agree Barr should go for not locking up any of these deep state crooks yet. Get someone in there to restore the rule of law and stop trying to kiss the butt of the fake newsters that are in bed with the deep state crooks.
     
  7. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    I find this fascinating. You don't want to deport DREAMers, but if you had your druthers, they never would have been allowed into the country in the first place. After all, when DREAMers and their parents came here as kids, they were not educated job creators as you put it, but mostly manual laborers. And if these DREAMer kids were not allowed into the country years ago, we'd be missing out on the economic boom and tax payments they are creating. So why not let the next generation in?

    And it's not like the parents of DREAMers are sitting at home collecting welfare checks. First, they aren't eligible. Second, these are the people working not just in the fields, but in the local diary processing plants that are keeping the cost of milk down for everyone. The reasons we need to import more labor is their kids are getting an education and taking better jobs, and eventually, the parents can't physically do the work. Even if the cost of the parents immigration was neutral, or even slightly negative, the benefits of their kids (DREAMers), more than makes up for things.

    As for Barr, I don't trust him to run an independent DOJ any more than I could throw him and Trump together, across a floor.
     
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  8. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Good lord, man.

    Stop and think. You've bought in hook, line and sinker to the ramblings of a completely corrupt man who lies every day, multiple times a day... and convinced yourself that long term professionals in law enforcement, the DOJ, the Judiciary, the Military, our Intelligence agencies, and the State Department are all the ones who are really the liars, and part of some fictitious "deep state" out to get Trump.

    Thousands of them in every aspect of government, most of them in areas of employment that are traditionally conservative / Republican, and the overwhelming majority with well established histories of serving our country with honor.

    And you shit all over each and every one of them, in your blindly steadfast defense of the most deceitful public person in any walk of life in my memory.
     
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  9. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    Nailed it about the most decietful person. MAGA baby! Mr. President is playing the room like a cheap fiddle.
     
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  10. Trickster

    Trickster Premium Member

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    Bravo! Well said, even if unto some deaf ears.
     
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  11. Trickster

    Trickster Premium Member

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    Nor an answer.
     
  12. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

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    Yep all you were telling me that when I told you the Steele Dossier was fake news by the deep state and the FISAs were illegal and part of a coup attempt.
     
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  13. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    These statements have been debunked multiple times. They are factually incorrect.

    There were some problems with a few FISA requests that had no bearing on the investigation and they are addressing the issues that were found. To describe them as a coup, is pure fantasy land.

    Here is a good review of the Steele Dossier, what was proven (much of it), disproven (nothing), and uncorroborated (statements about the level of cooperation between Trump and the Russians).

    The Steele Dossier: A Retrospective
     
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  14. mutz87

    mutz87 #stayingtf@home VIP Member

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    Can't prove it but I think it's a damn good indicator about how far he's crossed the line.
     
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  15. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

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    why are you talking about dreamers. They aren’t the problem. You just can’t be serious? I know why you led with dreamers.

    I understand that for liberals trumpeting the value of taking illegals, giving them support, benefits, child birthing support, hiring teachers to educate their kids that somehow we come out better off then without I don’t see it.
    A Profile of Current DACA Recipients by Education, Industry, and Occupation
    I’m not even trying to dissuade you about or discredit DACA. But okay, that’s what we get? I would much prefer 700,000 kids of Asian, Indian and Pakistani... Colombian and Brazilian as well. Many Brazilians here in California and all that I know speak English fluently. Man, talk about on-the-ball people. Now before you cry and say how important those jobs are to the mighty US economy don’t you also agree that some of these jobs would be occupied by Americans of available? I hardly see the logic of underpaying an illegal in order to keep wages low when you will almost certainly eventually have to support their families. It’s short sighted to believe we will not spend more by virtue of them being on the verge of poverty.

    Quite simply, if it were not for illegals and chain migrants we could accommodate more Americans into the health system. As of now an American has to be destitute to receive medical and other support. California is distributing untold millions in care to illegals and children born here- the ones you liberals pretend are protected by the 14th amendment- that almost no Americans can receive exactly because they are transparent in their income, ownership, wealth status, family unit structure. A family goes to the county and says she’s single and needs hospital help for she and the kids. It works, apparently. They get medical funded in large part through Obama care dollars. That’s why when you get near the pediatric waiting rooms in doctor/hospital buildings all over California you see so many of them with their children. Are they paying out of pocket? Obviously not. Do they have insurance through their employer? You already know the answer.

    Answer this- How many hospital administrators have you interviewed to find out how they deal with the crisis and what do they recommend? I’m sure you realize it’s happening even if you don’t see it. You can’t be that naive.

    How American Citizens Finance $18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants

    Medicaid Helps Hospitals Pay For Illegal Immigrants’ Care

    Illegal Immigrants Account for $10.7 Billion of Nation’s Health Care Costs, Data Show

    Very conservative numbers. The real costs are probably staggering.
    I could not give a poop about your milk prices. I can concede that we need or needed a program for agriculture if people want that kind of work but your standard of “if they can find a job we needed them” is at best suspect. Atlanta Georgia has a full work force and thriving economy 25 years ago before unemployed illegals were showing up and loitering in large areas or hanging in groups at Home Depot hoping someone would pity them and they could make $50. Its really sketchy that all the people employed were so needed.

    also, the 11 million illegals number liberals like to tout as the number of illegals is likely closer to 25 million. Areozoma New Mexico and California probably have 10 million between them.

    I think ignorance is innocent generally but you’ve been that way a long time so .... To continue, I know a Hispanic American- yes, a real American- who manages a fairly large staff of mostly non English speaking “immigrants” and he expresses a significant amount of frustration with the way they work, the inappropriate income and tax reporting they do, and what he says they get away with. There are people all over California that make a lot of money shielding illegals by way of tax IDs and what else “newcomers“ need. You may not know because you are blinded by milk prices, which is unbecoming. Anyway, he recently he described that in order not to pay taxes many claim seven(his words) exemptions so that they have the least amount withheld. I guess the IRS sends them letters or whatever to refill or update but that’s probably ineffective. An employer that uses illegal labor would be used to swapping old employee data for new of an employee in good standing needed that. Right? Did I mention he told me that every town had people that supply usable paperwork? The reason this talented Hispanic American was sharing this with me is because unlike most of his community he was married to a Hispanic American in a church and registered with the state. Because of this he himself cannot cheat the system. Not that he needs to, he was expressing dismay and some contempt at what’s really going on. Much of what he said seemed pretty obvious to me anyway although I can understand your disbelief.

    There's good reasons why even Republican politicians from border states like McCain from Arizona, and W. Bush from Texas, supported plans like the Gang of 8 plan. Because these men understood what Reagan said about immigrants, that they bring the values of hard work and family, and generally make this country better.
    [/quote]at what cost? And how much is enough? Do we just go go go until finally every menial task that high school kids used to do is no longer available because it’s some immigrant family’s piece of the American Dream?

    Did not bother me. Was a bit. If that bothered you then you must have spent days sick in bed over Hillary’s shenanigans. No?

    I’m not sure I believe you. Yes or no, did you vote for Hillary?

    cant stand the moron and did not vote for him. By now he could have garnered a significant portion of black empathy and support had he not acted as such. Sadly, although the real culprits to the demise of black culture and economic prosperity are the ones they’ve pledged allegiance to. Sad and sick but true. It seems as if every day the guy brings heat on himself or his White House. Yes, stop tweeting already. BUT, someone needed to start the process of forcing China to shape up somewhat. And no, I don’t care that we have to subsidize farmers and some Midwest entities. What did you all think, we let it get out of hand then there's no price to pay? The abject ignorance of the public. Out of sight out of mind I guess. Isn’t it a damn good thing he wants to eliminate as much as possible our military footprint and force our so called allies to help pay for their defense? Wow, awesome. Why did Trump have to be the one? Regulation vs jobs and economy? Too early to say because the environment is at stake perhaps. Does he sound like an asshole when he suggests warming is a hoax? Yes, but slightly less than the damned liberals that have no idea how to fix it but propose trillions of $$$ for ??? It’s empty hollow base placating pandering. Truth be told we don’t know how to fix it and cannot unless every industrialized nation in the world is on board... but they are not. The other thing is, what’s actually causing it? Oh, and at first I thought he was a tool for pulling out of the climate accord until I realized that Europe was going to throttle us regardless of what India and China do.

    Illegal immigration? Thank god somebody is looking out for my country and at least for the time being is preventing those cynical, gross Democrats from trying to fill our economy with largely unnecessary illegal but overall costly labor so that one day they can legalize all of them for no other reason than votes. Don’t dispute that because it’s true and you know it. I would pay $4 a gallon and $4 for a bunch of broccoli well before I would ever damn my country that way.

    I did not vote for Hillary either.

    And if you or any of your panty waisted liberal board buddies want to get into a link and article war let’s have at it. I’m fully ready to post the data on illegals getting thousands and thousands back on tax credits that they shouldn’t as well as independent videos of professionals such as an accountant in Indiana of all places telling America he does hundreds of returns every year for illegals and with only a tax ID number they receive thousands of dollars from our treasury.
    How legal immigrants can claim U.S. tax credits
    https://www.politico.com/pdf/PPM41_immigrationfactsheet.pdf

    I would submit that on balance their contribution is negated by what they take. Surprised Trump has not started to crack down on the tax fraud really.

    I’m pretty busy and mostly only interest in the football boards. This gives you a bit to chew on but I’m far from out of ammunition. Any person that minimizes the overall impact of this tragedy saying they are happy to pay a little extra on one side to have some cheaper prices on the other(milk) is really fairly myopic.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  16. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Umm, okay.
     
  17. FutureGatorMom

    FutureGatorMom Premium Member

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    Someone is working on Trumps list of crimes. It is 300 pages and counting. You're happy apparently to give this country away to Russia. Brush up on your Russian if YOUR president is re elected, which if there is a God, he won't be.
     
  18. FutureGatorMom

    FutureGatorMom Premium Member

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    upload_2020-2-19_18-36-51.jpeg
     
  19. DieAGator

    DieAGator GC Hall of Fame

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    For starters the only reason I’m not for deporting dreamers is they have no place to go. I would sooner deport their parents but not in favor of that. Look, we have to take some lumps because it’s out of hand. Dreamers are part of what we have to deal with. This is what happens when corporations are allowed to act this way. As you know, I believe we should verify employees and if a company wishes to or chooses to hire an illegal or undocumented person they have to pay more to city, state, federal. “But Die, my eyes are watering from the thought of businesses having to pay a fair amount for cheap labor instead of passing those costs off ultimately to AMERICAN taxpayers... it makes me want to weep”. Well, tough. There’s never ever been such a thing as cheap labor.
    prove it.
    whyndont you and your family go vegan and get off animal products so we can solve this immigration problem. I mean seriously, MILK AGAIN ???? LMAO buddy. Enough with your damned milk prices. It seemed I was being facetious when I called you out originally. So it’s vegetables and milk prices. Awesome. America thrives on cheap vegetables and handsome milk prices. :thumbs up:

    More Asian Indian, Pakistani, East European, Colombian and Brazilian. Enough from our drug producing corrupt neighbor okay?

    I admit I’m confused but knowing the Dems it’s not likely as bad as it seems. Obama’s DOJ was nothing to brag about and lord could you imagine Hillary’s having any credibility?
     
  20. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

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    Exactly - what they try and do with fake polls...