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Babylon Bee- college freshman explains to Cuban refugee, socialism.

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by dadx4, Jul 19, 2021 at 5:52 PM.

  1. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    A Van Down By the River
    I've never seen any of the Grownups movies, but I assume they at least have people getting hit in the nuts with a ball or something that would produce a mild chuckle
     
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  2. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    When I was an undergraduate our program had a great thing where once a month a professional in the community would come in and share something they were working on. With several decades of life behind me now, I cringe to think about how we cheerfully offered suggestions and critiques with our half a semester of basic knowledge of something they had spent five or ten years actually doing.

    Oh to be young and know everything again. Or even better, to be young again, but wise enough to shut up and listen when people who know what they are doing are talking.
     
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  3. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    A Van Down By the River
    This is why people so fondly remember college. Its sort of the last time people cared what you had to say about anything enough to indulge you, its all about creating the fantasy that you are moving on to become the next generation of leaders and problem solvers, rather than mindless cogs in the machinery. College is great at making you feel important for awhile, that's what you pay for mostly.
     
  4. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    You rated my 'Public education is socialism' post a 'come on man'. Care to explain why you apparently think it is not socialism?
     
  5. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    I think Babylon Bee threads should be banned. They are highly triggering, in that readers look so hard for humor, which just isn't there, and the result is confusion, despondence and depression. Fellow Gators should not have to experience this. It just isn't humane.
     
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  6. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    I am still waiting to hear our experts on socialism explain how public education isn't socialism.
     
  7. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    An oldie (from a 2010 Tea Party rally) but still a goodie illustrating how Americans feel about socialism and how much they really know what it is.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. slightlyskeptic

    slightlyskeptic GC Legend

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    This is always the classic liberal response to socialism. "But what about the public schools?"

    Well, first of all let's define socialism. It's the central (national) control, instead of private control, over industry, property and the means of production. Schools are locally controlled and are not solely public since there are plenty of private alternatives. They are not a means of production they are a public service. Public schools were started hundreds of years before the term or theory of socialism was even invented. As were things like fire departments and policing. But if you want to define them as socialist go right ahead. I think they are a good example for pointing out how even quasi-socialism, while beneficial to some, is never the best option when compared to the other options. Look at the number of failing public schools there are. And compare test scores from public schools vs. the test scores for kids going to private schools. And it's not just because wealthier people can afford to go to private schools. Private schools in low income areas also have higher test scores. And let's look at the other "socialist" program libs love to point to. Social Security is and has always been a giant Ponzi scheme. It has been heading toward ultimate failure pretty much since its inception. As it stands now SS will start paying out only 75% of promised benefits in 16 years. Of course before then there will probably be changes like means testing where, even though you've dutifully paid into the system while you were also doing all the right things like living within your means and saving, you will not get the benefits you paid for and deserve. They'll also keep expanding the benefits ages and increasing SS taxes.

    And socialism, like the kind libs love to point to in places like Denmark, counts on the lower and middle class to carry the load. That's unlike the kind of socialism being touted here in America where envy is one of the chief tenets as the socialists want the wealthy pay for it.
     
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  9. altalias

    altalias GC Hall of Fame

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    Socialism - political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    Education is not "the means of production, distribution or exchsnge". Also, when we started public education no economist would have referred to our social organization as socialist. Ergo it did not come from either a socialist system or philosophy.
     
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  10. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Well, this is just nonsense. Socialism is often run with local government control.

    That differentiation is pure framing. You have just convinced yourself that it is totally different because you used different words to describe them. Service provision is a means of production.

    Many programs labeled as socialism were started before the outset of "socialism." Nobody would argue that owning a government monopoly on trade, for example, is not "socialism." And yet, "mercantilism" as a system was based on that and far predates the notion of socialism.

    This is largely not true.

    Family Income Affects Kids' Success More Than Public Vs. Private School, Study Finds

     
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  11. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Of course it is an exchange. A teacher exchanges their time, knowledge, and energy into making a person more knowledgeable for monetary gain.
     
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  12. altalias

    altalias GC Hall of Fame

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    By your definition everything the government does (that you approve of I assume) that is broadly for the benefit of all as socialism. The armed forces, roads, libraries .... That is self serving and not a definition that many share. You are welcome to defining socialism that way but you are going to get many, mostly tacit,
    come on mans.
     
  13. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    I didn't provide a definition. You did. I simply applied it. But yes, much of government is an economic exchange. I am sorry that you don't like the implications of the definition you provided.
     
  14. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, all of those things are examples of socialism. Public schools are socialism. Publicly owned roads are socialism. National defense is socialism too. Or do you think the military is a private corporation?
     
  15. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    They hate calling things that are obviously socialism 'socialism' because they don't want to define things they actually support as socialism. To them socialism is the boogeyman, so they can't agree that public education is socialism. They have to contort themselves and somehow define it as something else.
     
  16. Tjgators

    Tjgators VIP Member

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  17. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    It's a public good provided within a capitalist society. If you want to label public goods as socialism have at it. However, I suspect I am the only poster who has taught at public universities in the US & in a communist country - FTU in Hanoi. FTU conducted zero research & stole every textbook that it's students used. I had to take TP with me & had to shit in a hole in a room that was about 100 degrees. That's a pretty good example of a public good provided by a capitalist system & communism. Oh, & of course it was corrupt as hell. I have no idea what grades my students received. They weren't about to let a proletariat like me "give away" something that they could sell.
     
  18. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    Your experience in Vietnam has nothing to do with whether or not public education is socialism. And education isn't really a public good, even though it is good for the public.
     
  19. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Outer Limits
    Overall a very interesting thread. Only thing we are missing is a dyed-in-the-wool Rand follower.

    Or...maybe we're not and I am the one missing it.
     
  20. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    Your classical definition of socialism re public education is correct. By the same token, most of what you see in Europe isn't really socialism. Single payer Healthcare isn't socialism.

    Canada single payer health care isn't socialism. Medicaire isn't socialism. UK NHS is socialism. The VA is socialism.

    We've come to define it more broadly these days as redistributionism.

    You are off the mark on private vs public education. There have been multiple studies that have shown that public education is just as good as private, when you adjust for demographics. Public often exceed private religious schools. Of course, this is on average. You can always find anecdotes either way.
     
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