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American Embassy moves to Capital Home of Israel, Jerusalem!

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by RayGator, May 14, 2018.

  1. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree 100%...and when one sides position is as extreme as "Israel should be wiped off the map" then the proper response is to put the embassy in the place that annoys them the most. Especially when you have the upper hand in every aspect.
     
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  2. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I have no doubt that the US media is going to side with Hamas provided information
     
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  3. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    But there is no peaceful solution possible.....whats the next step then? Pacify the unreasonable?

    That's a horrible long term strategy
     
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  4. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Should be angry at all of that for sure. Although which countries have been penalized for the sides they chose in WWII, or for the faults of their leaders by losing their homes? They definitely made the short list, eh?

    I'm not even trying to say that should be undone. Just pointing out the Palestinians' situation is pretty unique and their reasons for anger are legit.

    Further, Israel continues expansion into Palestine with new settlements and continues to wall off areas of Palestine to restrict free movement. Do Palestinians have no legitimate gripe there?
     
  5. lacuna

    lacuna The Conscience of Too Hot VIP Member

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    The ancestors of the Palestinians have also lived on the disputed land for thousands of years.
    Palestine has existed as a district, province, or region under the documented control of various kingdoms since 1100 BCE. First under the Egyptians, then the Assyrians, it ran from Phoenicia (Lebanon) south to Egypt. It is better known as the land of Canaan, and was the home of ancient Phoenicians (Philistines) and Canaanites.

    Philistines - Wikipedia

    The Philistines were an ancient people known for their conflict with the Israelites described in the Bible. The primary source about the Philistines is the Hebrew Bible, but they are first attested in reliefs at the Temple of Ramses III at Medinet Habu, where they are called Peleset (), accepted as cognate with Hebrew P'léšet.[1] The parallel Assyrian term is Palastu (), Pilišti (), or Pilistu ()

    According to David Abulafia, the term "Peleshet" signifies foreigner or wanderer. In biblical Hebrew they become Pelishtim; in Greek, their land becomes Palestina, hence the terms Palestine and Philistine.[7]
     
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  6. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Open air prison? In 2005 Israel voluntarily withdrew from Gaza. Instead of attempting to create a viable state the Palestinians of Gaza elected a Hamas government which used Gaza to launch rockets and infiltrate terrorists into Israel. The notion that a small densely populated area cannot support a state doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Singapore and Hong Kong are almost as small geographically as Gaza and have much larger populations yet both are great economic successes. Gaza was economically viable when it was occupied by Israel. Israel didn't start putting the economic screws on Gaza until Hamas began hostile acts. Hamas also has a history of using it's own people as martyrs. Instead of building bomb shelters Hamas has used concrete and steel to construct reinforced tunnels to smuggle terrorists into Israel. Although the apparent asymmetric deaths are disturbing, Hamas is to blame is as much if not much more so than Israel. Just speculation, but it would not be surprising if Hamas isn't trying to breach the border fence and infiltrate suicide bombers. Although the possibility of successfully infiltrating suicide bombers is extremely slim Hamas cynically benefits from the deaths of its own residents in a bizarre way be creating martyrs and gaining support for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) strategy against Israel.
     
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  7. GatorNate96

    GatorNate96 Sophomore

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    Human Rights Watch has advised the UN Human Rights Council that it (and others) consider Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip because Israel controls Gaza Strip's airspace, territorial waters and controls the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air or sea

    So long as Israel seeks to control and dominate others through force they should expect retribution.
     
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  8. ValdostaGatorFan

    ValdostaGatorFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Bill, I'm talking about throwing rocks. Yes it's RT.

     
  9. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    The alternate is to give the Hamas government carte blanche with respect to Gaza. In other words allow the unrestricted import of arms into Gaza that will be used to attack Israel. If Hamas renounced hostile action and kept its word the chances are that Israel would let up on the restrictions.
    Examples of why Israel restricts commerce to Gaza
    IDF intercepts major Iranian missile shipment to Gaza

    Iran reportedly operates Yemen-Gaza weapons smuggling ring

    Egypt ‘thwarts five attempts to smuggle weapons to Gaza’
     
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  10. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia Todayo_O
     
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  11. ValdostaGatorFan

    ValdostaGatorFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Lol, I know. I hate to use other people's sources (not referencing you here), but it had video clips illustrating my point that I don't thinks it's right to use live ammo on rock throwers.
     
  12. gatorev12

    gatorev12 GC Hall of Fame

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    You keep repeating the claim that Israel "takes people's homes" or "kicks them out of their homes" when that's not really accurate with what happens.

    Yes, Israel has forced Palestinians from their homes at various times over the last few decades for one reason or another. There was one program where the home of a suicide bomber would be demolished (which was ultimately ended I believe); and the current one is as compensation to Jewish families who lost their homes in the War for Independence to a Palestinian family who later created residency. I know there was a recent eviction on those grounds, but it was the first of it's kind since 2009 and subject to judicial review/appeal.

    What DOES happen more often is Israeli citizens (with semi-official permission or encouragement) building new homes on what would be considered "Palestinian" land from previous borders or framework discussions on dual state boundaries.

    That is a very different thing than what you're implying: where Israelis are forcing Palestinians to leave their homses.
     
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  13. GatorNate96

    GatorNate96 Sophomore

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    Yea, nobody's blockading Israel to intercept US shipments of weapons.
     
  14. wgbgator

    wgbgator Very Stable Genius Premium Member

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    Geo-hell
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  15. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

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    I suspect the broader reference to "taking people's homes" is a reference to the events at the end of the Mandate period pre-dating the declaration of Israeli statehood. Which definitely would qualify. I think that's the main thing he's saying the Palestinians are understandably upset about.

    The illegal "settlements" are a different issue - while the tacit endorsement that the government gives them kind of undermines the suggestion that Israel is legitimately interested in a peaceful two-state solution, it also reinforces amongst Palestinians the notion that Israel is still trying to steal more of their land.

    And I don't think that's an entirely unfounded notion with respect to the settlements - if I came and built a tent city in your front yard, then threw a fit about how you were a threat to my safety when you tried to get me to leave and had the police come and remove you from your house "for my protection," you probably wouldn't be too thrilled with me, or with the notion that I am somehow the "good guy" in that scenario and deserving of sympathy because I am having to withstand your violent reactions.
     
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  16. g8orbill

    g8orbill Old Gator VIP Member

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  17. gatorev12

    gatorev12 GC Hall of Fame

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    So you leave out the qualifier to edit the meaning. Cute.
     
  18. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    ''Protestors" were shooting. Multiple efforts to blow holes in the border fence. Women and kids mixed in so they would be shot when Israel defended itself from invasion by an enemy. This is a typical tactic. Solution to not getting shot: don't shoot across the border; don't try to invade; and don't join a group doing it.
     
  19. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    For the same reason you would care about France, Great Britain, Australia. Israel is a central ally.
     
  20. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    There is no, and has never bee, Palestine. Israel's expanded post-1967 borders are armistice lines after the end of the 1967 war. Jordan abandoned its claims to Judea and Samaria. Syria is never getting the Golan Heights back. The map posted earlier is a lie for many reasons: primarily, it largely identifies Jordanian territory and claims Israel took it from the Palestinans. Much of it (plus land within pre-1967 Israel) was offered to Arafat in 2000 in exchange for a) peace and b) recognition, but Arafat turned it down when the deal was ready to be signed. So, don't blame Israel for there being no "Palestine." Meanwhile, empirically, Gaza (or Hamasistan) is not exactly working out.
     
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