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Afganistan / What Now?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Gatorhead, Aug 12, 2021.

  1. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Agree 100%. Think we are and that we would be stupid not to, even if it means releasing reserves. Just interesting that the top people that supposedly left the country, which led to the presumption they feared for their lives, are back and negotiating without fear. There was a lot going on, and it makes sense in retrospect. That is their home. But damn it was quick and complicated our issues
     
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  2. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    They can hate us all they want. If they're willing to treat their people better (especially women) if we recognize them and trade with them, it's worth it. We engage with plenty of other atrocious regimes.
     
  3. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Their President ran away with $169 million, apparently. I wonder where he got that.
     
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  4. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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  5. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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  6. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    It was a stupid decision. He was supposed to stay in Qatar and not go to Afghanistan.
     
  7. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Why is it relevant?
     
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  8. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    He is the leader of the Taliban who just retook Afghanistan in less than 6 days was in prison under US control and the Obama/Biden administration released him in a deal for a deserter. That was bad enough but the terms of his release were that he would stay in Qatar and not return to Afghanistan.

    He wouldn't have been there to be in command if Obama/Biden administration hadn't traded him for a deserter.
     
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  9. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    A leader and cofounder of the Taliban was released by the Trump administration for nothing in 2018. I'm not upset that we traded some members of the Taliban for an American, even a deserter. If you weren't upset by all the members of the Taliban released by the Trump administration, you can spare me the outrage over the Obama prisoner trade.

    EDIT: The guy your article mentioned also isn't "the leader of the Taliban." The "Supreme Leader of the Taliban" is Hibatullah Akhundzada, but he's considered more of a religious figurehead than anything. The person considered the political leader of the Taliban is Abdul Ghani Baradar, the man I mentioned above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
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  10. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Uhmm, this "policy" was actually a signed (capitulation) agreement. Terrible try evidencing little to no grasp of the actual facts.

    Trump. See Doha Capitulation Agreement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
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  11. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    LOL, Trump would have released him after signing the Doha Capitulation Agreement along with the other 5,000 Taliban fighters he returned to the battlefield.
     
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  12. scooterp

    scooterp GC Hall of Fame

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    The Biden team was the one that acted on the the plan regardless of who came up with …and they executed poorly. To the lay the responsibility of this debacle on the guy who was voted out of office and out of the picture for the last 7 months is just ridiculous.
     
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  13. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    In the end the guy was going to be released anyway. So I truly don’t see the point of this. Again, 5 vs. 5000. Are we saying Obama released some super important characters and Trump didn’t? Even if you hated that trade, hasn’t it been rendered moot now?

    My take on the Trump deal was it was stupid to negotiate with the Taliban 1:1 without the Afghan government (and in retrospect, how was the Afghan government ever to hold up when we appeared to recognize the Taliban straight up). But if you are negotiating peace, generally that means releasing prisoners. It’s not clear what terms WE got for those 5,000 fighters, however. Why didn’t we hold them as leverage until the final evacuation?

    The ONLY upside is so far the Taliban has not attacked our forces. So I guess the “peace deal” got us that. The question is can it hold up for as long as is necessary.
     
  14. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I had heard that, but the Economist cast them down on that claim. Then when I saw he had returned without incident, I began to doubt
     
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  15. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    They were somewhat hamstring on getting Afghanis out because the previous administration implemented policies to block doing so and refused to accept them. Essentially, policy makers placed their racism and xenophobia ahead of supporting those loyal to us. All while troop strength was really low for assisting evacuations while maintaining a defense presence. This left a logistics nightmare. Americans are different of course because they don’t need special immigration visas.
    Stephen Miller's 'racist hysteria' blocked help for Afghans: ex-Pence adviser
     
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  16. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Answer my questions then. All the right wingers just gloss over them. Can’t blame Trump for signing a surrender agreement and then reducing troop strength to 2500 when he left office? So, state the objective, the logistics to accomplish that objective, assess the Taliban response, and the consequences. Also, weigh in the willingness of the American people to accept the result of the action. At the same time, explain Trump’s statement of June 26. Very easy to say that Biden was in office so it’s all his fault. 7 months of a 20 year war after the foregoing. But until someone answers these questions, it is just a political circle jerk.
     
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  17. domgator

    domgator Premium Member

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    Please show me where I have ever demanded Biden's resignation over this embarrassing debacle? And no you do not get to tell me or anyone on this board to be quiet just because you do not like what we say or because your argument is so weak. Are you really a lawyer? A lot of your posts really seem to indicate otherwise.
     
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  18. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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  19. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Speaking only for myself, he probably conflated you with other "conservatives" who posted on this board and called for Biden's resignation and/or invocation of the 25th Amendment to remove him from office and while I'm sure at least one other poster will accuse me of suffering from "TDS" and although the debacle is still on Biden a very good argument could be made that the former president's policies set Biden up for failure including the reduction of US forces to 2,500 and the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners.
     
  20. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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