Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Afganistan / What Now?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Gatorhead, Aug 12, 2021.

  1. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    6,594
    448
    1,358
    Apr 16, 2007
    The western backed govt fled the country, so by definition it’s already a failed state.

    Under prior Taliban rule in the 90’s it might as well have also been considered a failed state. You can hardly call that a government.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    10,047
    1,118
    1,718
    Dec 9, 2010
    I imagine that the Taliban is going to form a government, at which point they won't be a failed state if they actually could project their power to the entire country.

    Agreed on their rule in the 90s being a failed state, but they never really controlled the whole of the country. Looking like we are heading back to that.
     
  3. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    9,538
    3,366
    1,723
    Nov 25, 2017
    Afghanistan is tribal. Which is why it is so hard to maintain a state there. The Taliban will find it to be no easier than the US did. It will control some areas and cities, but not others.
     
  4. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

    3,159
    217
    343
    May 23, 2007
    NCR
    • Like Like x 1
  5. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

    1,137
    396
    253
    Aug 4, 2020
    Top of the ridge
    What now? We sit back and watch Biden crawfish backwards, spin excuses, blame Trump( didnt he promise not to do
    that… the buck stops here?), change course, bring up his dead son… distasteful, and want to really really really focus on CoVid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  6. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    9,538
    3,366
    1,723
    Nov 25, 2017
    I have been reading the immigration comments with interest and the right wing fear mongering about bringing in immigrants. We really have no choice other than leaving behind those who helped us to be slaughtered. And some will be. All of this was set up by the surrender agreement Trump signed and the withdrawals that took place before he left office. Not enough troop strength to defend ourselves or Bagram air base. As evidenced by the troop strength we had to send back just to get people out now. And Trump said as much when he said he tied Biden’s hands. Which he did. This was a gruesome set up to force the withdrawal because Biden never had the troop strength to maintain a presence we could protect there. And the Afghani army wasn’t going to. That was the logistical reality on January 20 this year. Yet, Biden is blamed for the failure of a 20 year effort to rebuild a tribal country because he was in charge when the country fell. And, in any event, Biden decided to keep the deal rather than massively surging more Troops. So, we are now left with helping those who helped Us get out, and the right wingers fear monger about terrorists. Unreal. Biden does deserve blame for not getting folks out earlier in the Face this reality. But that’s it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  7. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    9,538
    3,366
    1,723
    Nov 25, 2017
    What was the logistical reality when Biden took office. Identify exactly what he should have done and how it would have changed the outcome you blame him for. Do you believe he is responsible for the fall of the Government?
     
  8. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

    3,159
    217
    343
    May 23, 2007
    NCR
    One of the talking points that this Admin still keeps trying to sell is that we will retain an over the horizon capability to deal with terror threats inside Afghanistan. As a lot of us have been saying, it complete BS.

    This is Khalil Haqqani, part of the Haqqani Network, and he has a $5M bounty on his head from the US and is a very significant HVT. He was openly walking around the streets of Kabul this week.

    Khalil Haqqani takes charge of Kabul
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1
  9. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

    3,949
    1,073
    1,568
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    Good update from the boss. Took really tough questions.

     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
  10. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    6,594
    448
    1,358
    Apr 16, 2007
    Actually I thought Biden (finally) addressed it properly in his press conference yesterday.

    Basically said the consensus view was the govt would last at least a few months, and it was HIS decision to keep going forward with the agreed to withdrawal. Said the focus is now on the mission of evacuating.

    Sounded to me a lot better than the “I take no responsibility” guy. Obviously for him the soundbite about how the collapse isn’t inevitable will be like Obama’s JV team comment, except x1000. But how bad it is obviously depends on how many they get out. You get all the solders out without incident at the airport and 10’s of thousands of Afghans and that is a good day in my book. There is no way to get every Afghan. Just get as many as we can and get the F out. I think announcing dates is a mistake. I don’t get why they keep doing that (and Trump did that too agreeing with the Taliban to a May date). I think on this one things might get more tense as the date approaches (desperate Afghans once again rushing the Airport). The smart thing would be to do what you can, quietly wrap it up, then announce after you are done that it’s official.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  11. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    9,538
    3,366
    1,723
    Nov 25, 2017
    You keep blaming Biden for the results of the war. As you do, your posts become obviously political, as typical of your posting. Because you refuse to answer the fundamental questions. First, what would you have done if you were Trump? What would you have done given the conditions and logistics facing Biden when Biden took office? Would you have sent back troops and at what level? What level of troop and equipment strength was necessary to accomplish those objectives? What would have been the Taliban’s response? What was the ability of our forces to protect Bagram Airbase when it was closed? Would you have relied on the Afghani forces? Would the likely result of repudiating the surrender agreement signed by Pompeo have been a return to warfare? What was the willingness of the American public to accept ongoing warfare with no end in sight? As I have noted repeatedly, nobody here will answer those questions. You don’t and won’t. Trump said a month ago in a Public speech that he tied Bidens hands with the deal and draw down. What did Trump mean? Did he? And these questions go for all the people blaming Biden for the fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban. If you can’t answer them, you are just offering unfounded opinions based on your politics.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    9,538
    3,366
    1,723
    Nov 25, 2017
    They aren’t talking about the evacuation. Biden took the blame for that. They are blaming him for the results of the war.
     
  13. domgator

    domgator Premium Member

    1,579
    83
    188
    Apr 3, 2007
    Nice attempt at deflection as ridiculous as your premise is. Should dem governors in States like NJ, CA, and Michigan also resign for the thousands of deaths in their states? You never called for the resignation of the former governor of NY for his order that actually led to the deaths of thousands of seniors. If I remember correctly you defended him on this. Warped sense of priorities, it's almost like they are politically motivated. What are the supposed DeSantis blunders that resulted in people dying this month?
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 2
    • Off-topic Off-topic x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    9,538
    3,366
    1,723
    Nov 25, 2017
    Ask this on the Coronavirus thread please. Not here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  15. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

    3,159
    217
    343
    May 23, 2007
    NCR
    I really hope you are being sarcastic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 8, 2007
    You are aware that the Trump Administration's agreement for US withdrawal from Afghanistan included the leader of the Haqqani Network? If your point is that Biden was dealing with a leader of a designated terrorist organization keep in mind that the Trump Administration negotiated with the leadership of the same terrorist organization.
    Taliban and U.S. Strike Deal to Withdraw American Troops From Afghanistan (Published 2020)
     
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 1
  17. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

    3,949
    1,073
    1,568
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    Doubt you watched it.

    The former guy couldn’t keep himself safe from Covid. I can only imagine that cluster. Ask the Kurds. So far there’s been some chaos withdrawing from a lost war and a collapsed government but safe passage for Americans. I’ll keep watching.

    Biden had 2 press conferences this week. Clearly spinning the narrative but I don’t see gaslight lying we’ve seen previously from the former guy. We’ll see how it turns out.
     
  18. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    3,803
    560
    483
    Aug 14, 2007
    Listen say what you want but most of the cons in this thread are just parroting partisan bs and most republicans around the country in leadership positions are using the current events for political points. The final outcome no longer matters, if it ends bad more political points, if it ends well, they’ll just stop talking about it.

    this is exactly why no other president pulled the plug. It was a lose lose. Always and forever.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

    3,159
    217
    343
    May 23, 2007
    NCR
    The point is you have someone who is still going to have a basketball card in the Oval Office walking around in the open with no fear. That should tell you about how much these guys fear our over the horizon capabilities.
     
  20. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    3,803
    560
    483
    Aug 14, 2007
    context. Taliban knows we aren’t shooting at Kabul right now that would be insane.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2