Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

ABORTION!

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by docspor, Oct 4, 2021.

  1. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

    19,282
    1,317
    1,868
    Apr 3, 2007
    Sorry, you are wrong. The more correct interpretation is that causing a miscarriage results in a fine and causing the death of the mother results in the death penalty. There is also a HUGE difference between some 3rd person doing some act that results in the death of the fetus (against the will of the mother) and the mother electing to have her own pregnancy terminated. Quote the verse that prohibits that. They had abortions back in Biblical times and those prohibitions could have easily been included in the Bible, if that was the intent. Since it's not there, that leaves both sides scrambling to find verses that they want to interpret as supporting their position.

    Many Christian faiths, including mine, are opposed to the government interfering with a woman's right to chose. Mainstream, well respected Christian faiths that haven't gone rogue, they simply interpret the Bible differently.

    The New American Bible Standard rendering of Exodus 21:22-25:

    "And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no [further] injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any [further] injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
  2. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

    19,282
    1,317
    1,868
    Apr 3, 2007
    Mine was, very much so. It wasn't always the popular position to take, but she had her reasons and stuck to her beliefs. I was proud of her in life and still am now that she has died, maybe even more.

    And just because someone respects a woman's right to make her own choices about her body doesn't mean they favor terminating every pregnancy with an abortion. That would be pretty stupid, don't you think?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  3. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,839
    131
    333
    Aug 23, 2008
    I get it.

    My main point is men carry all of the risks with these "accidents" or "mistakes" while having zero "choice" in how things do or don't play out in the future.
     
  4. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

    19,282
    1,317
    1,868
    Apr 3, 2007
    One practical reason would be if the woman is unable to fully support the child financially, who should pick up the rest of the tab...the taxpayers of the child's home state or the dad? I know which way state legislatures are going to go.
     
  5. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,839
    131
    333
    Aug 23, 2008
    And women don't carry this same responsibility for their decisions to have sex?

    You are avoiding my point. Unless you think the decision to have sex is only made by men.

    By your logic, women shouldn't sleep with men who won't provide for them.....yet women get off the hook for their "mistakes".

    You could easily use your same logic and say that a woman's decision to have sex with a man means she is agreeing to any result of her decision to have sex with a man.....even if that result is a baby.

    And if this is the case then there's no need for abortions.
     
  6. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,839
    131
    333
    Aug 23, 2008
    Isn't this problem often cited as one of the reasons for pro-choice? To allow a woman the choice to get out of this "mistake"?

    You're admitting the woman knew she couldn't afford a baby on her own yet chose to have sex and a baby anyway yet deserves the right to deny a man that same privilege. The consequences for personal decisions are greater for males than females in this situation.
     
  7. danmann65

    danmann65 GC Hall of Fame

    1,281
    381
    403
    May 22, 2015
    It's not perfect but it is what it is. Women shouldn't sleep with men who can't provide for a baby. Us poor men we have to pay support for 18 years for a mistake. Women still have the harder road.
     
  8. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

    7,193
    659
    1,468
    Apr 8, 2007
    So take it up with "Christianity Today" and "Christian Life", I'm just providing you with quotes from their past "experts" on the topic. I guess many of the Christian women who trusted the guidance of Christian leadership for the first 2000 or so years of Christianity are "baby murderers" burning in hell. Being "good Christians" worked out really well for them, huh?

    Maybe "The Good Place" was onto something after all ... everyone ends up in hell... LOL.
     
  9. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,839
    131
    333
    Aug 23, 2008
    So the next time women want "equal rights" as men then we can just tell the women...."it is what it is"?
     
  10. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

    2,493
    1,466
    603
    Jan 15, 2008
    But doesn’t she have the option of adoption? I’m pretty sure that was the point the poster I was responding to was making.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

    8,820
    661
    458
    Apr 9, 2007
    Men don't have the risks and potential restrictions associated with pregnancy. It's not fair, but if a woman gets pregnant, she can't disappear in the wind and shirk all responsibilities, even if it is illegal to do so. A man can.

    And for the record, my mother is staunchly pro-choice, and had three, wanted kids. My wife is also pro-choice, and we have two kids together.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  12. danmann65

    danmann65 GC Hall of Fame

    1,281
    381
    403
    May 22, 2015
    Women should have equal rights and are pretty darn close to having them atleast in this country. Pay equity is something I have multiple opinions on, but women have body autonomy as do men. If you don't want to support an accident for 18 years don't have unprotected sex with a woman whose position on surprises isn't known to you.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,839
    131
    333
    Aug 23, 2008
    Quit dancing. No one is talking about equal pay for women.

    You're saying it takes 2 to have sex. It takes 2 to have a "surprise".....but only 1 of those 2 people has a choice in the future of that "surprise".

    Sounds like a 1 way street. Good talk.
     
  14. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,839
    131
    333
    Aug 23, 2008
    Can a woman have an abortion without a man knowing?

    The answer is yes and your argument is flawed.
     
    • Disagree Bacon! Disagree Bacon! x 1
  15. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

    10,301
    1,124
    683
    Jan 20, 2008
    Tallahassee, FL
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Legend

    921
    69
    248
    May 30, 2007
    Who cares what Evangelicals thought in 1968. People have had many thoughts since. Most really dumb.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  17. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

    2,735
    1,004
    683
    Nov 30, 2010
    I feel guilty for getting snipped. I had no idea I coulda been knocking up randos to save lives.
     
  18. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 8, 2007
    With the exception of certain politicians maybe no one should really care what so called Evangelicals think since like the weather their positions will change if one waits long enough. For example, when Bill Clinton was the president certain high profile televangelists preached that the personal behavior of the president mattered. When their idol with the orange complexion announced that he was running for the presidency the same televangelists did a full 180. In fact at one time Evangelicals were of the opinion that religion and politics should be separate. Not so since they discovered the ability to manipulate politicians from a certain political party.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
  19. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

    7,193
    659
    1,468
    Apr 8, 2007
    I just think it's funny how something billed as "THE TRUTH" keeps changing over the years, it's one of the many reasons why I can't take religion seriously. I mean, it's a pretty big shift to go from "fetuses hardly matter, let's promote an expansion of abortion rights" to "life begins at conception, I'm 110% sure of it, and if you disagree with me you're a baby murderer". It's like how the Bible was used to support slavery and segregation ... until it wasn't ... I bet those people burning in hell right now because they listened to the Christianity "experts" from 0000-1968 care ... LOL. When will "THE TRUTH" change again?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

    5,399
    250
    368
    Apr 13, 2007
    Please expound how men are really the victim.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 2