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A Quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. that makes me question my opinions regarding protests

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Gator715, Aug 3, 2020.

  1. LouisvilleGator

    LouisvilleGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Why do you insist upon impugning the dignified manner in which King and his followers protested during the 1960s? THEY were actually attacked. They weren't doing the attacking, the looting, the rioting. Once again, moving the goal posts.
     
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  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

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    The protesters in Ferguson, Seattle and elsewhere were attacked by the cops to. The cops decide when the protest becomes a 'riot,' once they decide its no longer a valid assembly by gassing people. As I said earlier, the only kind of protest the state respects is people marching in a circle doing nothing. All direct action seeks confrontation. And the state usually decides that they'd rather disperse protestors with violence than engage with demands or allow the occupation of property, even if the property is a public street. If the Pettus Bridge happened today, you'd be arguing that the protestors were blocking people from using the bridge and saying people should be allowed to run over them, or that the cops were perfectly justified in trying to disperse them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  3. LouisvilleGator

    LouisvilleGator GC Hall of Fame

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    It's not working.
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

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    I'd say the only way to convince you would be to travel back in time.
     
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  5. Trickster

    Trickster Premium Member

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    In response to the unspoken premise of your article: one is either a racist or an anti-racist.
     
  6. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Interesting points by all - thank you, and I'm glad it hasn't devolved into mud slinging.(yet) Nice topic 715, thought provoking, thanks.
     
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  7. LouisvilleGator

    LouisvilleGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I'd say you were the first lib who couldn't win an argument with a conservative, so you called him a racist to try and save face. But who would I be kidding?
     
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  8. SeabudGator

    SeabudGator GC Hall of Fame

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    People forget that MLK was called a communist, anarchist and worse. His amazing stance on nonviolence was balanced by the use of social disruption (boycotts, street protests), the threat and occurrence of violent protests), and more aggressive groups (ie, Malcolm x).

    The cause then for all these groups was just. The means was a fair question, but all were attacked as “anarchists”, “communists”, or “criminals”. Some may have been one of the above In whole or part, but the vast majority were fighting for a just cause and being unfairly smeared. Just like today.

    History will not be kind to those opposing social justice.
     
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  9. LouisvilleGator

    LouisvilleGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, there was that video of him bragging about his Marxist training.
     
  10. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    can you post a link to that video please?
     
  11. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    A billboard like this was on A1A in Brevard County when I was a kid.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. LouisvilleGator

    LouisvilleGator GC Hall of Fame

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    That one obviously flew way over your head.
     
  13. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    sorry. maybe you could explain.
     
  14. LouisvilleGator

    LouisvilleGator GC Hall of Fame

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    It was satire. Did people accuse MLK of being a Communist in order to impugn his reputation? Yes. But that's not what is happening today. The leaders of BLM themselves are on video bragging about their Marxist training. Nobody is dreaming this up as a way to discredit them. It came straight from the horse's mouth. The desperation and dishonesty with which the left seeks to preserve the reputation of BLM is very troubling. Trying to liken them to Dr. King is despicable, quite frankly.
     
  15. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    OK. it's not true. got it. and then something bad about the left.
    I guess that kinda wraps it up.
     
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  16. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

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    They accused him of being a communist because he trained at the Highlander Folk School (founded by labor organizers accused of being communists by the FBI). So yes, in short, people though he was a "trained Marxist" because of well, his training.
     
  17. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's...

    tegator80 and one of "those posts"!!!

    I appreciate the introspection of the thread. It is damn hard to find in this climate, C-19, Trump, or not. I think we have to recognize that "protest" is a form of warfare that, in just the demonstrations, does not involve bloodshed or destruction. In a typical war (except for a civil war) there is the superior side and the inferior side. I mean the one who has the might. And as we all know, might makes right...or at least that is what is convenient. I can get behind the idea that a peaceful demonstration is quaint to "the noble ones" and even necessary in a free society (or one that aspires to be one) but once the kids stop being quaint and begin to get destructive then the kid's gloves come off. And destruction does not always mean property.

    It also means the status quo for which plenty of people have a vested interest in, both in finance/prestige as well as emotional (think Italian Americans and Columbus's Birthday or some southern men and the "noble war"). I think the real question has to be, does the status quo rely on a side that HAS to be prosperous at the harm of others or is it a hill that, while more convenient and efficient for some cultures, is a free market setup? In the case of the freedom marches of MLK, I believe what we were seeing is a side that preferred the status quo because it made THEM feel superior and to give that up would be considered "destructive" to them. But I also believe that what we had - and mostly still have - is a HUGE group of folk who didn't have an opinion because they just didn't have a horse in the race. Think about race relations in the south, which is usually WAY superior to what is happening in the big cities in the Northeast and Midwest. If they were truly "in the game" they would be still a part of lynching "those uppity blacks" because that is what is in their DNA. But that is no longer tolerated. Show me a real hate crime down south and I will show you REAL compassion and demands for justice. Let's call it "the fence sitters got educated."

    But now to the idea of protesting and the natural progression. If a group of workers are SO aggrieved that they choose to picket in front of their workplace and it meets the guidelines then they are within their rights to voice their opinion...just as it is within the workplace's rights to take names and get rid of the harmful ones (you know, those who shoot rather than the ones who stand behind the shooters). THAT is called freedom. Now obviously if the protesters are doing a good job, they know that, while they may be inconvenienced in the short term, the political/public will WILL sway in their direction in the future. That is unless all they want is to make more money than the business is capable of paying in a free market system and then they have a LONG slog to their goal. What they are proposing is for the business to commit suicide.

    But I am not sure the OP or the other posters care about the "noble" pursuit of getting more stuff from your company but rather the idea that perhaps the folks who are out in anger and/or resolve have a much bigger point than mere money. And that goes to an idea of in any war, what is the superior position prepared to fight for in light of the inferior position's desire to gain something with the real chance of losing something. And to that, what is the inferior position willing to lose in order to gain the other? THAT is always the $64k question. If the inferior is prepared to lose their life because their life has little or no value under the status quo then the fight can be quite formidable. And so, for us "superior" folks, what is SO important to them that they are prepared to lose their lives, real or imagined? IMO, what we are seeing today is a bunch of entitled and spoiled/impertinent first world children who don't have a CLUE what hardships are. Question (although this is uneducated), how many folks who are in the BLM rallies/destructions are from the African nations whose families immigrated here, either because they wanted to be here or their homeland was no longer viable? My guess is so little to be close to zero. So...they are black and they don't want to matter??? Methinks they have a different idea of what is bad. Just a suggestion.

    But to continue, I think that a resolution gets fought "nobly" like guerillas fight a war. You know, the US Army who got left behind in the Philippines and not the Castro-ista's. It IS a long slog and bad things happen along the way. Ask those who embraced the freedom marches of MLK and Ghandi. But that is what happens when you ARE in the inferior position.

    Now to a nuance, war-wise. Let's talk about the Afghanistani War against the Soviet Union. They were most likely going to lose it unless a more powerful force aligned with them. And that goes to a Charlie Wilson. But as we all should know, that "noble" war begat other forces such as Bin Laden and the Taliban. And to the current events, there are some powerful forces in play and I do not believe they are in the US's best interests. And to me it is asking for the US to commit suicide. That is a HUGE task to overcome...as long as there are enough traditional Americans who understand what this country is founded and what history has taught us (beware of wolfs wearing sheep's clothing).

    So, if I may wind this down, it is natural that a cause goes from quaint to forceful. But war is war and that IS what happens. So, unless you are prepared to lose what you have you will remain in the inferior position or your superior position WILL be threatened. That is as long as what is being proposed has a winner and a loser. But in the case of this BLM nonsense, I truly don't see a loser at all but rather a bunch of self absorbed stupid folk. And if the powers that are aligned with the movement get to push the cause over the finish line, there WILL be a loser and that is the US of A. At least the one our forefathers gave us. Question to those who don't like my takes on these posts (unless it is about too many words...sorry), what is SO egregious about the country for which YOU grew up in and was nurtured in that it seems fitting to blow the whole thing up? Because some "nice talking folk" want to do things? REALLY???

    Or to use a line that has been around a LONG time (it was a pro-black campaign, if you recall) and it is as appropriate today as always: a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    That is all I have on this topic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  18. LouisvilleGator

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    You keep trying so hard to twist it. Nobody has to accuse the BLM co-founders of being Marxists. They openly brag about it themselves on video. MLK never did that. When you have to make false equivalence after false equivalence just to piece a distorted argument together, perhaps it's time to scrap the argument and move on.
     
  19. gaterzfan

    gaterzfan GC Legend

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    Well, I think a starting point would be determining to what extent, if any, a peaceful protestor has the right to impinge upon the constitutional and civil rights of another law abiding Americans citizen. An example would be a peaceful protestor blocking traffic on a public thoroughfare or blocking a patron’s access to a legally operating business or entering a restaurant not to patronize the business but to verbally or physically assault a person with whom they have political or philosophical disagreements.

    IMO, the discussion should be what special power does a person accrue when they self identify as a protestor that affords them the ability to adversely impact the rights of others without consequence.

    A start would be to designate that a peaceful protestor only has the right to enter a public space to broadcast his complaint and solution his solution therefore.


     
  20. SeabudGator

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    Funny how when some people protest they are patriots and we see quotes like this from Jefferson:
    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.“

    When others protest, they are labeled communists and criminals.

    I wonder what colors that difference in perspective?