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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Tjgators, Jun 29, 2025.

  1. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    The only way to win is to support the second most expensive form of energy (behind nuclear) that also happens to be the deadliest form of energy. Cheap and safe is woke!
     
  2. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The problem is the dual mandate. The latest inflation numbers ticked up. Basically, this is now an empirical question of how the deadweight loss of the tariffs will manifest:

    1. A more traditional recessionary scenario, where people stop buying things due to tariffs and prices don't increase because of it, allowing the Fed to cut rates.

    2. A more inflation-oriented reaction, in which the Fed needs to increase rates to hold down inflation but consumers and businesses keep buying at high rates.

    3. A combination of the two, essentially a stagflationary impact. That leaves the Fed with very few options to pursue both mandates and likely leads to substantial instability in the Fed as they fight about which mandate to prioritize (which Trump will use to try to consolidate power).

    The first data looked like number 1 (e.g., drops in consumer spending but limited changes to inflation), but I think you are seeing signs of number 3 popping up.
     
  3. gatormonk

    gatormonk GC Hall of Fame

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    WOW! CNN has finally admitted it: Donald Trump is the "most influential president this century."

    Tariffs. A historic net migration decline. And a ton of executive orders.

    "Trump's remaking the United States of America."

    "We can start there with tariffs. What are we talking about? No TACO for Trump. The effective tariff rate, get this, 18%. It is the highest, the highest since the 1930s up from, get this, just 2% last year...I can't think of a more influential president during this century and it starts here with tariffs! He said he was going to raise tariffs and despite the claims otherwise, he is in fact doing that."

    "The other big thing that Trump ran on was immigration. How about net migration? It's gonna be down at least 60%! We may be dealing with, get this, negative NET MIGRATION to the United States in 2025. That would be the first time there is negative net migration in this country in at 50 YEARS!"

    "We're talking about down from 2.8 million in 2024."

    "Already, 180 executive orders signed by Donald Trump this year. You have to go all the way back to the FDR administration once again to find a year in which there were as many executive orders signed as we have this year."

    "To give you an idea, Biden during his first year signed 77. That's the entire year. We're only a little bit more than halfway through this year."

    "Love it, like it, or lump it. He has been tremendously influential to a historic degree."
     
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  4. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

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    I don’t think anyone has questioned how influential he is, in fact that’s the very concern.
    The 2 questions that are being asked are whether he is tearing down other institutions for that influence at the long term expense of our democracy, and whether the decisions he is making with that power are good or bad.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I wouldn't be too quick to take this as a point of pride. The most influential world leader of the last century was a German leader who's last name started with a "Hit" and ended with a "ler". He influenced the entire world, just not in a good way. Just because you can start the biggest dumpster fire does not mean you are better than the next person.

    The economy is starting to go south, even though Trump is busy firing the people that are reporting the bad news. And Epstein seems to be rising from the grave, with MAGA fans digging him up and demanding to know what he has to say.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    More winning! The U.S. car market is bankrupting some group of people known as "Americans", and it's getting worse. Interest rates are high, and tariffs and inflation are driving prices even higher. The percentage of people behind on their auto loans is actually worse than it was during the Great Recession in 2008. Keep raising tariffs, Dimwit Donald! That should solve the problem! You know, the one caused by the tariffs.

    https://moneywise.com/auto/the-us-c...ing-americans-and-its-only-going-to-get-worse

     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

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    The only good news from that is that it will help reset the insane car market. Used cars will become more reasonable and if people have options then new car prices will have to come down too. The last number I saw is that the average lower income family spent something like 38 percent of its post tax income on transportation. That’s insanity, even if it has been helped by bad consumer decision making. It is also and never was sustainable.
     
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  8. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    Or people will by less expensive cars that aren’t fully loaded
     
  9. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Even better: maybe placing a large tax on cars and their component parts will provide consumers with the opportunity to buy cars that aren't fully loaded for the same price that fully loaded cars used to cost. Or not buying at all.
     
  10. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    See, lots of options
     
  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think the problem is that large numbers of poor people are buying fully loaded cars. Most of them are not as stupid as you seem to think they are. The problem is that we have a growing permanent underclass of people that can't afford cars, food, and rent. Federal minimum wage has not increased in 18 years. Inflation has nearly doubled the prices of everything since then. The used car market has been over-priced for quite a few years now, leaving people with few options. And, from what I've heard, the rent is too damn high!
     
  12. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Nobody ever claimed that Trump only had limited ways of making people's lives worse.
     
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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Get ready for a cliffhanger. More winning: the top economist at Moody's Analytics claims that the U.S. is on the precipice of something called a "recession".

    Top economist warns the U.S. is 'on the precipice of recession' — and it will be hard for the Fed to come to the rescue

    Zandi was last seen hanging over the edge of a cliff, not sure whether to let go or not.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    Federal minimum wage? Many states have minimum wages that exceed that.
     
  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Obviously. Most of those states are wealthier states that have much higher costs of living. They can't have all of their janitors and garbagemen dying in the street of hunger. It's not humane.

    The point is that the federal minimum wage is the standard for all states and sets the minimum that any state could allow. States with a higher cost of living are going to want to be higher than the federal minimum. The federal minimum was set at $7.25/hr in 2007 and has not increased since then. The economy was not damaged by this increase in 2007. I have not heard anyone blame the 2008 recession on the minimum wage being too high. So why would you not support increasing the minimum wage to offset inflation? Obviously, it has to be done gradually to prevent upsetting the industries that depend on minimum wage labor, and to prevent those jobs from being replaced by robots and computer interfaces. Do you think these people deserve to have their wages reduced every year by inflation? Is it good punishment for them and whatever sins they may have committed?
     
  16. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    So why haven’t the democrats raised the minimum wage in all these years?
     
  17. gatormonk

    gatormonk GC Hall of Fame

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  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Obama was trying to get the economy to recover from the 2008 economic collapse that happened under the mismanagement of GWB.

    Biden was trying to get the economy to recover from a devastating pandemic that was poorly managed by Dimwit Donald Trump.

    Neither could afford to do anything that might upset the economic recovery from massive fiscal disasters ignored or made worse by incompetent republican presidents.
     
  19. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    So raising the minimum wage hurts the economy. Who would have thought that?
     
    • Off-topic Off-topic x 1
  20. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 26, 2007
    Same as tariffs do, don't you think?