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Academic Demographers Voice Growing Concerns Over Irreversible Global Depopulation

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Contra, Jul 4, 2025 at 7:34 PM.

  1. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

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    In their new book After the Spike, demographers Dean Spears and Michael Geruso make the counterintuitive case for worrying less about overpopulation and more about depopulation. Comparing it to climate change, they say population shrinkage is coming and once it starts it could be hard to stop.

    The highest number of births the planet has ever seen was in 2012, when 146 million children were born. The global population has continued to increase since then, even though the birth rate has fallen, largely because the world has gotten better at preventing the deaths of children. But now people are having smaller families, and in the next half century or so, death rates will exceed birth rates. That's what the two associate professors of economics at the University of Texas at Austin refer to as "the spike," the period of sharp growth and possibly equally sharp decline in population.


    Spears, who is also the founder of r.i.c.e., the Research Institute of Compassionate Economics, which is focused on child health in Uttar Pradesh, has seen this process happen in real time in India where the average birth rate (i.e. the average number of children a woman will give birth to in her lifetime) has dropped to fewer than two as the country has got more prosperous.

    TIME spoke to Spears and Geruso about why there should not be fewer people on a planet that feels like it's straining to sustain the 8 billion we have, why people around the world are choosing to keep their families small, and what, if anything, should be done.


    Why the World Needs More People, According to These Experts

    The fickle nature of scientific consensus is one of the more interesting phenomenons to me. I happen to think they might be right this time.
     
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  2. Emmitto

    Emmitto VIP Member

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    So?
     
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  3. Emmitto

    Emmitto VIP Member

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    “We're not advocating for endless population growth generation after generation. What we're proposing is that we should consider whether we should welcome depopulation, remaking the future by default, or if instead it would be better for the world's population to stabilize at some level, perhaps at a level much lower than today's.”
     
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  4. Emmitto

    Emmitto VIP Member

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    Welcome the depop Contra. Who’s first?
     
  5. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    They're wrong. There were 4 billion people on the planet in 1975. 50 years later we have 8 billion. The planet would be vastly better off if there were fewer humans on it. Humans would be better off too.
     
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  6. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

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    See the impending economic depopulation crisis in China as exhibit A for the consequences that can be involved in societal depopulation. What it means for the generations in countries where there are not enough children to take care of them is many of them will die in a government facility without any family to take care of them. See what the Obama administration did with the VA, and you have a good picture of what a begrudging government taking care of people it views as a draining inconvenience on the government's income statement looks like. We should never forget the government does not love you like your family does. The generations who allow this to happen to themselves bring this on themselves.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2025 at 9:08 PM
  7. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 26, 2007
    Yes, that is the result of doubling the world's population in the last 50 years. It's a ponzi scheme. With a ponzi scheme someone's always left holding the bag.
     
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  8. G8tas

    G8tas GC Hall of Fame

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    What's the problem? Who cares if there's less people?
     
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  9. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Out of the 8 Billion humans living on earth, about 2 Billion can’t afford food (with nearly 1 billion facing starvation).

    The global population, despite this, is only expected to go up. Somewhat perplexing some of the highest population growth occurs in the poorest areas, even where there is “hunger”.

    The population falling short of replacement issue seems to be more of a “1st world problem”, which can be solved the way it *always* has in modern human history. Migration.
     
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  10. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Didn’t China do that to themselves via their crazy “one child” policy? I think that situation is a bit… unique.
     
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  11. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

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    Sure. China is an example of a society that fully embraced depopulation as a moral good for society. Europe and the US represent a unique situation since immigration shields our societies from declining birth rates. We are leaching off of other societies (like China) to deal with the problem and societies like China are the ones who pay for it.
     
  12. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

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    That is a disturbing anti-humanity, anti-life, anti-family philosophy to consider the existence of people’s sons, daughters, and families to be a ponzi scheme. One of the saddest things I ever saw was Chelsea Clinton lamenting that she was never aborted by her mom. Wishing beloved family members had never been born including people’s beloved sons and daughters and oneself is one of the saddest most selfish things I have ever seen. It flies in the face of loving your neighbor to wish they did not exist.

    There really is a cold disregard for the value of human life in such thinking. But I wouldn’t expect anything less from the same people who supported the 20th and 21st century American holocaust against the unborn. That is par for the course in this society.

    I can’t imagine a husband and wife in their old age at a family reunion, seeing all of their wonderful grandchildren and great grandchildren, and groveling over the Ponzi scheme that is their family. It makes me sick to think people think this way about family.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2025 at 11:06 AM
  13. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The anti-immigration right is so twisted at this point. Now, it isn't that immigrants are leaching off us. Now, we are leaching off of their origin countries.
     
  14. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    I like how you declare the opinion of these two guys to be "scientific consensus." Probably why it seems so fickle to you. You think everything you read is "consensus."

    The "correct" population is not something that will gain scientific consensus.
     
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  15. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    BTW, I largely think population shouldnt be "planned" in either direction. Let people make individual choices. If people need more people to do jobs, add meaning to their lives, take care of them when they are old, or whatever other reason that they want to have kids, they will make more people. If people don't feel like these are necessary components to their lives, they won't. Stop trying to tell other people how they need to live like you have their life figured out for them.
     
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  16. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 26, 2007
    And I'm disgusted by people who want to cram the earth with as many humans as possible. You're the one who wants to continue this ponzi scheme with evermore population increases. The earth can't sustain that. I want to end it with a gradual reduction in world population. And now we have AI that could be a huge help in maintaining productivity even with decreasing population. Though knowing humans AI will probably be used for malevolent purposes rather that good.
     
  17. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    you realize that the world is dynamic, not static, right?