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Israel strikes Iran

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Jun 12, 2025 at 8:36 PM.

  1. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Easy, Musk. He is pretty damn smart, and with his ADHD perhaps he will soon flip back to wanting to help people.

    Netanyahu is a mass murderer. He is using ethnic cleansing to remove his enemy in Gaza. A jew ... doing ethnic cleansing. It is hard to imagine how we got here.
     
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  2. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    NCR
    Does ethnic cleansing include feeding millions of the people you are trying to wipe out?
     
  3. ncargat1

    ncargat1 GC Hall of Fame

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    That is a horribly mis-informed "CIA analyst" given that in August 2001, the Mosad gave the CIA and FBI a list 19 names, 4 of which were involved in the hijackings on 9/11. Ephraim Levi personally communicated with the State Department. Two days later French Intelligence gave the exact same warning to the CIA from different sources.
     
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  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Does Iran have a right to defend itself ?
     
  5. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    They can certainly try
     
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  6. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

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    Anyone critical of Israel is going to be called an antisemite. Coming from you that would be a badge of honor. The survivors of the attack on the Liberty have told the same story Giraldi tells. Are they antisemites too? You dishonor the dead and wounded by rejecting the evidence out of hand. Up your game.

    My Jewish friend Arnaud de Borchgrave was called an antisemite in an email sent to me by Paul Mirengoff, one of the 3 Jewish bloggers (at the time) at Powerlineblog (which Time magazine rated the #1 political blog in 2002).

    De Borchgrave told me Mirengoff's email was "quite gauling." Arnaud, who was born in Brussels, told me he was descended from the second most powerful Jewish banking family in Europe. His first 2 wives, both deceased, were Jews. He said his children were raised as Jews and he could go to live in Israel under the Law of Return. Arnaud was too modest to remind me that as a small, thin, 15 yo he volunteered to fight in the British Royal Navy and took a bullet in his right leg on Juno Beach as he struggled to raise the back door of a watercraft that had dropped off troops. A British Royal Navy vessel had saved De Borchgrave and a couple of relatives when they were on a ship destined to land him in Auchwitz (or see him exterminated in some other way). That incident inspired him to join the British navy. His grandmother lied and told a review board that Arnaud was 17. Arnaud's aunt is one of two little girls in the Renoir painting, Pink and Blue. She died on the way to Auchwitz


    De Borchgrave was a Newsweek correspondent for many years, helped found Newsmax, had a top position at UPI, was editor in chief of the counter to the Wash Post, the Washington Times and he covered wars up close and personal, In the October 1973 Arab-Israeli war Arnaud famously wore the uniform of an Egyptian general so he could get close to the action.. He interviewed Mullah Omar 2 months before 9/11. He tried to intercept Osama bin Laden at a mountain pass as he left Afghanistan. He tried to meet meet and interview Bin Laden in September 2004 in Pakistan. Pretty heroic guy imo.

    De Borchgrabe's father was the head of Belgian Military Intelligence for the Belgium government in exile during WW2. Arnaud had connections in Euro Intel agencies, the CIA and the Mossad. De Borchgrave was convinced the attack on the USS Liberty by Israel was deliberate.

    From the website ussliberty.org, which you can evaluate for reliability

    Israeli pilot to IDF war room: This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?

    IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Yes, follow orders.

    Israeli pilot to IDF war room: But sir, it’s an American ship – I can see the flag!

    IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Never mind; hit it.
    ‘But Sir, It’s an American Ship.’ ‘Never Mind, Hit Her!’ When Israel Attacked USS Liberty [Annotated] | USS Liberty Veterans Association


    When DeSantis was a congressman he turned down a request for a meeting with 3 survivors of the attack from his congressional district concerning the attack on the USS Liberty. Ron's first cabinet meetimg was held in Israel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2025 at 6:16 PM
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  7. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe we should remove the log in our own eye, and shutdown the baby murder mills in America first before complaining about the mass murdering other countries do.
     
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  8. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

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    Tell us exactly what the warnings said. Sounds like plausible deniability to me. Forget about 9/11. We know the Israeli attack on the USS ZLiberty was deliberate and it was covered up by the Johnson administration, John McCain's father, John McCain himself and many others
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2025 at 6:17 PM
  9. AlfaGator

    AlfaGator VIP Member

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    The Israel-Iran situation is very chaotic, but the world is a better place now that someone has finally taken action to destroy the evil that has been Iran for so long. However, it won't be finished until the mullahs are deposed and the Iranian people can control their country again.
     
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  10. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t think there’s any question the attack on the Liberty was deliberate
     
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  11. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    I've actually seen the USS Liberty exhibit in the National Cryptologic Museum. Let me know if you are ever in the area, I'll be happy to give you a tour.
    https://www.nsa.gov/museum/

    You can know the Israelis attacked the USS Liberty and say the CIA agent you are quoting is an antisemite. Why do sailors that were on the USS Liberty need reporting from the Giraldi to confirm what they actually experienced? What does one have to do with the other?

    I mean this with all sincerity, I think you are missing your calling writing fiction. Your writing style comes off as that of a tenured history professor at a small, private college, who the rest of the faculty cannot stand because he keeps dropping names of people his father worked with and he people knows but has never done anything himself. If you could come up with a plot where that professor actually finds a lead on something significant, has to go on an adventure to track it down while convincing doubtful colleagues to help him along the way, and it ends up eventually he proves that he is right, I would definitively read that. Just make sure the plot is not that the Jews actually control everything.
     
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  12. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    It's like saying the ISI was funding the Taliban. It is another, "Yes, everybody knows that. Why do you think it is a big deal you know it?"
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2025 at 10:09 AM
  13. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    they rotate exhibits. Last time I was there that exhibit was not.
     
  14. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    It was a while ago. Back before they did the construction project that switch the entrances and the parking lots around.
     
  15. vaxcardinal

    vaxcardinal GC Hall of Fame

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    Construction is done now.
     
  16. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    I know. I was on campus the other week.
     
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  17. vegasfox

    vegasfox GC Hall of Fame

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    I would suck as a writer and a history prof. If I did write fiction I'd study Vince Glynn and get help from AI.

    As for name dropping: My system is I listen to the smartest analysts and try to figure out the truth. Few people here have much respect for my "experts." They trust the talking heads of the MSM, the WaPo and NYT. Many have said my sources are not legit, like chemgstor, who has said he lied on AP, Reuters, the neocon think tank ISW and Yahoo News.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2025 at 11:41 AM
  18. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Legend

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    I doubt they try it during the Trump administration.
     
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  19. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    I haven’t looked for verification:

     
  20. Contra

    Contra GC Hall of Fame

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    FWIW, I am not an outright supporter of Mearsheimer's point of view. I view myself somewhere in the middle, not sure which side is right. I think both sides can make sense of the evidence. It seems like a stretch of the truth to say that Mearsheimer has been disproven, though. His POV on the topic explains every single one of Putin's actions going back 15 years as far as I can tell. Even the earliest invasion of Georgia by Putin was preceded by talks of Georgia joining NATO. People on the other side of this issue can similarly account for all of the evidence with their theory of Putin's actions. I don't think we have the evidence right now to disprove either side, although the government might have classified information on this topic we do not have.

    Anyone who has done their research on Trump knows he is a negotiator and a deal maker or at least he likes to believe that he is quite skilled at it. This is his second Presidency now, and China, Russia, and Iran have had time to adapt to the negotiation game. Putin's threat that Ukraine is a stepping stone to rest of Europe needs to be understood in the context of negotiation. We all know when a customer goes into a car dealership the initial price a customer says they are willing to pay may not be the actual number they are willing to pay. The same is true for the dealer. The lowest number the dealer is willing to sell the car for is not the number advertised at the very beginning. That is the nature of negotiations whether it be a football recruit negotiating NIL money, a sports agent negotiating a contract for their college or pro football coach, or a negotiation between world powers. You can't believe everything everyone says when they are at the negotiating table. If you do, then you'll be had and taken advantage of.

    This is why I never believed Trump's threats to use the military in Panama, Canada, or Greenland. I still don't, and I am not sure I believe Putin here either. We won't know if Putin is posturing for negotiations or if he is really telling the truth until the invasion of the rest of Europe happens. You have to keep in mind this kind of threat follows Trump's very obvious threats to use the military on US allies, let Russia do whatever they want to our allies, etc, which appear to be poor attempts by Trump to bluff our allies at the negotiating table. I view any statements from Putin during the recent negotiating period with Trump to potentially be reciprocal negotiating tactics. If Trump is going to constantly bluff at the negotiating table as a negotiation tactic to get what he wants, then maybe Putin is going to do the same to take power away from Trump in the negotiation process.

    If you've ever played poker with someone who constantly bluffs, you eventually learn that you could lose the game by folding every hand to them. Trump is showing he might be that kind of person in the geopolitical arena, and you have to make adjustments to how you play your hand against a serial bluffer. I think we are still seeing how the rest of the world is adjusting to that including Putin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2025 at 4:06 PM