Best article I've yet read about how the Trump phenomena is threatening America. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/24/trump-tyranny-christian-nationalist-democracy/ "For some time, it was possible to believe that many voters could not see the threat Donald Trump poses to America’s liberal democracy, and many still profess not to see it. But now, a little more than six months from Election Day, it’s hard to believe they don’t. The warning signs are clear enough. Trump himself offers a new reason for concern almost every day. People may choose to ignore the warnings or persuade themselves not to worry, but they can see what we all see, and that should be enough. "How to explain their willingness to support Trump despite the risk he poses to our system of government? The answer is not rapidly changing technology, widening inequality, unsuccessful foreign policies or unrest on university campuses but something much deeper and more fundamental. It is what the Founders worried about and Abraham Lincoln warned about: a decline in what they called public virtue. They feared it would be hard to sustain popular support for the revolutionary liberal principles of the Declaration of Independence, and they worried that the virtuous love of liberty and equality would in time give way to narrow, selfish interest. Although James Madison and his colleagues hoped to establish a government on the solid foundation of self-interest, even Madison acknowledged that no government by the people could be sustained if the people themselves did not have sufficient dedication to the liberal ideals of the Declaration. The people had to love liberty, not just for themselves but as an abstract ideal for all humans. "A healthy republic would not be debating whether Trump and his followers seek the overthrow of the Founders’ system of liberal democracy. What more do people need to see than his well-documented attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power with the storming of the U.S. Capitol, the elaborate scheme to create false electoral slates in key states, the clear evidence that he bullied officials in some states to “find” more votes, and to persuade Vice President Mike Pence not to certify the legitimate results? What more do they need to know than that Trump continues to insist he won that election and celebrates as heroes and “patriots” the people who invaded the U.S. Capitol and smashed policemen’s faces with the stated aim of forcing Congress to negate the election results? As one 56-year-old Michigan woman present at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, explained: “We weren’t there to steal things. We weren’t there to do damage. We were just there to overthrow the government.”
From the article " ...It is what the Founders worried about and Abraham Lincoln warned about: a decline in what they called public virtue... Who would have ever imagined that appx half the electorate throwing their rabid support behind an adulterous, racist criminal would lead to a "decline in public virtue" ? I had refrained from immediate comment because I think that, while it is correct, the article is only telling us what we knew 8 years ago. And half the country clearly doesn't care about. Because Trump tells them it is good to be uninformed, angry, and have a victim's mindset. I also think that Trump will win. I think the country, and the world, is about to take a major downturn. I was just trying to keep my negativity in. But IMO we're doomed.
Outstanding article. A few questions I still struggle with, one, why do they follow Trump? Maybe it’s per the article: “It is what the Founders worried about and Abraham Lincoln warned about: a decline in what they called public virtue. They feared it would be hard to sustain popular support for the revolutionary liberal principles of the Declaration of Independence, and they worried that the virtuous love of liberty and equality would in time give way to narrow, selfish interest. Although James Madison and his colleagues hoped to establish a government on the solid foundation of self-interest, even Madison acknowledged that no government by the people could be sustained if the people themselves did not have sufficient dedication to the liberal ideals of the Declaration. “
Even half of the conservatives on this board are sick of Trump. Unfortunately they don't represent the majority of conservative voters
We can't say it often enough, hoping it will spur turnout and convince the undecideds who to vote for. If you read the entire article, he's suggesting it's racists, white supremacists and white evangelical Christians who constitute the majority of Trump supporters.
If people are not raised at home according to the Ten Commandments, they will not be moral people. If our education system does make civics mandatory for each of the last two years, the people will be uneducated about our system of government. I'll be willing to bet there is no moral and educated person who supports Trump.
The idiocracy is here. We also have a corporate press that feels they have to "two sides" every issue as if a plate of metal screws and dog feces vs. a cheeseburger and fries are both legitimate choices for dinner.
I mean Trump is obviously bad, but there is nothing 'radical' about our democracy, if you could even call it a democracy with a straight face to begin with. The fact that America is only quasi-democractic and counter-majoritarian in its setup is the only reason why Trump has a chance of being president lol.
In a general sense this type of government is a rarity in human history. Monarchs and despots have been the rule and not the exception. If that's what they mean by radical.
Too many people in this country high on their own supply of America being "exceptional." The talk of what the stakes are never seem to match the action, which is just lecturing people about how they need to vote for the people that have little respect for democracy themselves but are more enamored with decorum, informal rules and norms (not to mention participating in legislation/governing with the bad guys).
I wasn't referring to American exceptionalism. Over the last several thousand years, how many leaders were elected?
A lot of leaders have been elected, too many to count probably. I mean, Putin was "elected" ... the Popes and Holy Roman emperors were installed by the votes of "electors" ... what does that have to do with democracy?
“American Exceptionalism” has morphed away from America being a great nation because of its shared ideals, to fat chuds thinking THEY are somehow individually exceptional by virtue of simply being Americans. It’s a strange sort of über-entitlement. This is what Trump stokes in them, and why he constantly refers to them as “very special people”. It’s crazy. All part of the manipulation, and those same people would claim to hate participation trophies.
I think that describes almost everyone who has ever talked about "American Exceptionalism" as if it were a real thing or the mandate of heaven. I suppose ruthlessly ruling the world will do that to people.
You are completely missing my point. Representative government is a rarity in human history . Look it up.
I mean, the Greeks and Romans had that, I'm not sure some kind of representative government is all that rare. I mean, even the British who we declared our independence from had a representative government at the time. Now if you are going to say actually democratic governance where the majority of the population participates in choosing their representatives, then that is certainly a rare thing in human history.
