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Props to DeSantis/Senate for tort reform in regards to Florida insurance

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by channingcrowderhungry, Mar 27, 2023.

  1. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    I've been saying this is the single biggest issue Florida needs to focus on, and they're finally doing something to curb the people abusing the system. Florida property insurance has been on fire due to shady contractors, lawyers, and AOBs. Mix in two major storms leading to lots of insolvencies and incredible rate increases.

    With little fanfare this was signed Friday and I believe goes into effect this morning



    Insurers laud signing into law Florida tort reform - Business Insurance
     
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  2. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Its not going to be good having to go out of pocket to sue your insurance company. Not going to encourage insurers to behave either. As usual, the people with the money will be able to get theirs if they have a dispute over coverage. Its going to a big swing going from a pretty favorable environment for the consumer (in terms of legal recourse) vs being probably the worst in the country.
     
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  3. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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    There was little fanfare for a reason. Those folks in Lee County are going to get screwed over their homeowners claims. Most pieces of legislation don't take effect immediately. I do agree that there needs to be reform but this looks a little shady, especially with the insurance companies writing the legislation.
     
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  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Part of the reason there was little fanfare is that its a big giveaway to the industry lol
     
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  5. phatGator

    phatGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think last year something like eight companies insuring in Florida went out of business. Hopefully this will help companies stay solvent, and every day people keep their insurance.
     
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  6. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    This is a shitty bill that is purely a handout to the rich insurers who back the Republican Party. This does a lot to hurt the little guy and basically nothing to rein in the out-of-control prices. Blaming the lawyers is always the easy and lazy copout. We see these sorts of shitty reforms passed, people get harmed by it, and in the end, the rich corporations pocket the profits and continue to price gouge the people.

    By the way, because they put this law into effect immediately instead of having an effective date months out to allow people to prepare, it led to a ton of lawsuits being filed to try and meet the new statute of limitations. What does that mean? Lesser pre-suit investigations and a greater likelihood of frivolous lawsuits. It's also causing major issues for the defense bar and the courts.
    25,000 Lawsuits by Today? Florida Plaintiff Firms Rushing to File Before Tort-Reform Bill Signed into Law
    Civil case filings surge before DeSantis signed sweeping lawsuit reform bill
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
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  7. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    Maybe the pendulum swung too far in the other direction, but as is 7 insurers have gone insolvent in the last year in Florida. They arent going insolvent by not paying out for claims. On top of that many more have simply left the market and others are simply getting downgraded on rating
     
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  8. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Some type of reforms are needed, but not sure how punishing the “winning” side in a litigation helps anyone other than the insurers who are already disincentivized from paying legit claims. I don’t think I’ve talked to a single person who had to deal with their insurer that didn’t face at least a little tomfoolery.

    In my personal experience in our two major storms, insurance companies “did the right thing” claim 0 out of 2 times. Maybe insurance rates in FL just need to be higher, and we need to deal with that rather than try to maintain a false illusion.
     
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  9. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    I'm sure this is accurate, but we are so are removed from a free-market here in Florida I'm not sure how you'd get back to what a proper rate should be. Roofing scams, lawyer multipliers, frivolous litigation....
     
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  10. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Doesn’t the state effectively engage in price controls? Not letting rates go up? It’s possible the insurers simply aren’t able to charge enough to premiums to stay in the market. I’d guess “allowing” insurers to charge whatever they want would probably bring some insurers back in.

    Maybe in light of more and more destructive hurricanes we need to accept much higher premiums, but require more disclosure up front in RE transactions and mortgages as far as what it costs to insure, and also ramp up building codes even farther to try and minimize damage. Empowering insurers to not pay legit claims doesn’t bring transparency or functionality to the markets, it’s just going to mean some people will be screwed when their insurer plays the game of denying and dragging out claims. I just don’t think that’s the way to do it.
     
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  11. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    You'll have to let me know how prevailing-party attorneys' fees (which is what the "lawyer multipliers" is about) rewards frivolous litigation.
     
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  12. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    Creates an environment that is more favorable to plantiff's attorneys. Insurers are more likely to pay out smaller claims (think all the fraudulent roof claims) rather than risk losing in court and having to pay a higher attorney fee.
     
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  13. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    If it's a frivolous case, why would the insurer pay out? They're justifiably afraid of losing in court when it's a potentially meritorious case. What you're saying makes plenty of sense for erring on the side of caution on the borderline cases. But the frivolous cases? C'mon.

    What's more likely is the insurers may pay a nuisance settlement because it's cheaper than paying their own attorneys to litigate the case. But that's simply a reality in the system. And the only way that goes away is if you screw over a ton of people who have meritorious claims.
     
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  14. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    I imagine you are decently familiar with the door-to-door fraudulent roofing scam and the assignment of benefits? Take a 10k roof claim that the insurance company can pay out, or risk paying that plus a multiplier lawyer fee if they lose because there is some random shingle damage on the roof. That was the catalyst for the entire roofing scam that this legislation just hopefully neutered. I had 3 GCs come give me quotes last year on a home renovation and 2 told me they'd "take a look at my roof while they were there."
     
  15. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    I think long it has been said that those not on the coast are subsidizing the insurance for those on the coast in Florida
     
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  16. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    That's how its supposed to work, but there isnt much pushback from the state on rates. Insurers basically have regulatory capture, I mean they were able to get their wishlist enacted by congress!
     
  17. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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    Those things are true but so is the fact that insurers will slow walk and low ball claims.
     
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  18. GatorFanCF

    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    With an industry "Combined Ratio" over 1.05 in 2022 rates will not be going down anytime soon
    US Property-Casualty Industry's Combined Ratio Deteriorated in 2022.

    Combined Ratio = Insurance company's cost of issuing a policy + Claims. Anything over 1.0 means the insurance company is paying out more than they are taking in.
    Industry as a whole is experiencing a hard market.
    Florida (particularly for Auto & Property) is one of the worst markets in USA.
    If you're a business in Florida with heavy claims on Auto and Property you're in a world of hurt.
     
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  19. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    I think you will find that time will disclose that this is nothing more than a significant profit generator for insurance companies. I appreciate that “shady people” and lawyers are easy finger-pointers, but ultimately, sometimes it’s the for-profit insurance companies that fail to meet their end if the bargain in paying what their policy requires. There is a reason lawyers are needed.

    Additionally, the elimination of insurer-required fee payments when they lose, will hurt the homeowners. Instead of the insurer paying the legal fees to an insured when the insured is forced to fight to protect and enforce the insurance bargain, the insured will end up paying their lawyers from the insurance proceeds, meaning the benefits to the insureds will be dramatically reduced.

    I’m guessing this “reform” will not reduce premiums, but now only time will tell.

    Additionally, I believe the reduction of the statute of limitations from 4 years to 2 years on all negligence claims of any sort, will lead to more frivolous lawsuits, not less. The drastic time reduction will leave little time for lawyers in any instances to conduct their pre suit investigations and require them to “file first, ask later.”
     
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  20. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    this might be good if there was a serious insurance commissioner who went after insurers who did not honor their policies. now the broken homeowner has to find funds to hire an attorney out of an empty pocket to argue with insurer as he has no voice in Tallahassee to help him. can you see a problem with that? rather than resolve the problem, the legislature just shifted the power dynamic to favor the insurer. we all lose because there are massive legal fees being paid to force insurance companies to honor their commitments, something that the state insurance commissioner should be doing.
     
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