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The FBI took a woman's life savings, but a new bill would end the 'lawless' seizure of Americans'

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Gatorrick22, Mar 25, 2023.

  1. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
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  2. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    It is something the constitution explicitly is supposed to protect from, and any legislation should apply not just to the feds, but all levels of law enforcement in all states and jurisdictions. No state has the authority to ignore a constitutional right in such a way. I’d argue the total universe of asset seizure must be far worse in totality. Just addressing the federal side, if that’s all this bill does, is only helping a small # of people relative to the much bigger problem in law enforcement.
     
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  3. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    It covers state and local, I believe. And you are correct, this is something the Constitution should protect all American from happening.
     
  4. G8tas

    G8tas GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm onboard with it, however I disagree that it's just the FBI. Most seizures are done by local police and DEA. There's no way this makes it all the way to Biden though. You're talking about taking away money from local police. This bill will be blocked at some point either in the House or Senate
     
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  5. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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    This is the problem you run into when you make laws that are too vague and without exceptions.
     
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  6. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    IIRC, There is some really shady stuff going on where local law enforcement who seize cash and property, then they'd hand it over the feds and get a "kickback" paid out to them. It relieved the local law enforcement of the legal problem of having to fight to keep it all, and made it harder for the citizens to get it back. Hopefully that is addressed, too.
     
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  7. antny1

    antny1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah I defend a lot of police issues here because generally there is a lack of nuance and people tend to make sweeping generalizations but this stuff is b.s. No way should these seizures be legal with so little PC.
     
  8. phatGator

    phatGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think civil forfeiture is legalized theft motivated by greed.
     
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  9. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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  10. RIP

    RIP I like touchdowns Premium Member

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    Now this is a Rick thread I can get behind.
     
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  11. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    The abuse of civil forfeiture of the few issues in which there is bipartisan agreement.
     
  12. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    You are exactly correct. This reform is long overdue.

    Years ago I represented someone who was pulled over in Charlotte County for a tint violation. My client gave consent to search and the police seized $80,000 in cash they found in the car. No drugs, no evidence of any illegal activity other than my guy's DL was suspended for not paying a ticket. The cops did not know about the DL prior to the stop.

    I have the same tint meter the cops use and the tint was legal...not even going into the extra 3% tolerance Florida law allows. The cop was hiding in the brush in the median on I-75 and supposedly made this tint determination as the car was driving by at 70 MPH. I hired a tint company in Tampa. We bought several front driver's windows from the same year, make and model BMW. One was left with just the slight tint in the glass the car originally came with, one was tinted to my guy's window reading, one to the legal limit and one to the legal limit + the 3% tolerance. We used tint of the same color and reflectivity. Why go through all that? Because there is case law in Florida that holds even if the cop's initial assessment of the tint's legality is in error and the tint was actually legal, it does not invalidate the stop unless the cop was unreasonably incorrect. Yeah, I know. Plus, they had our $80,000.

    I have to say it was pretty impressive having all those windows rolled into the courtroom for two traffic tickets. I had my tint guy measure each window in court and allowed the stop officer to do the same with his meter. The difference between my guy's glass and the darkest legal (with the +3%) was dramatic, probably highlighted by the lighting in the courtroom and the fact that the glass was not on the car. In any event, we won..bad stop, tickets dismissed

    Back to the cash. Florida's forfeiture act provides a lot of safeguards, including hearings before a judge. I've handled many, this one would not have gone anywhere. Charlotte County, however, likely for that reason, turned the money over to the feds (the money would be shared) and I got someone with federal experience to handle that part. The fed's forfeiture rules put the burden on my client to show that the money was lawfully obtained. He hadn't worked in a year and had zero reported income. He had no real property and no personal property he could have sold to raise that much money. He also made statements at the time of the stop regarding the money which would have precluded arguing other sources. Final result: the feds and Charlotte County split $80,000.

    As I said above, reform of this procedure is LONG overdue. The result in my case was unconscionable.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
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  13. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    I'm all for forfeiture of ill gotten Gaines and weapons used in crimes. I'm also for this bill.
     
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  14. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Most years the amount stolen by the police as civil forfeiture exceeds the amount reported to the police as stolen by all other sources combined.