Katie Hobbs sues AZ county that refuses to certify election results to protect GOP wins

It is baffling that millions believed it simply because he said it. Even as it became more and more clear that his claims were false, they believed it because he said it.
Never seen anything like it.

 

I don't think they believe it because he said it. The point I was trying to make, probably not too articulately, is that they observed that he seemed to be getting away with it and then joined in because they wanted that outcome, and now believe they can get away with it going forward. Whatever they originally believed, they come to rationalize and persuade themselves that there was actual fraud

 

why are you trying to change the subject? If a discussion is needed on yeah-what-about Hilary, maybe start a new thread. This one is on election in Az.

 

Adding the caveat that I'm not sure whether it's accurate or not, one commentator noted that under Arizona law the Secretary of State has the option of rejecting the vote of a county that refuses to certify its election results. If that is the case and the vote from Cochise County isn't counted it could have effect of actually increasing Hobbs margin over Lake and even more detrimental to Republicans it could flip a House seat won by the Republican candidate by a narrow margin to the Democratic candidate. I suspect that if that's the actually case the Trumpian clowns on the Cochise County Board of Supervisors will back off their ridiculous stunt and vote to certify the election results.

 

I can’t help but think about the classic experiments in conformity performed by Solomon Ashe in the 50s. He asked groups of subjects to make a fairly easy judgment on line length.



But in a twist, in some of the runs, there was only one real subject and the rest were confederates, who gave the same wrong answer. The real subject went last, and this person overwhelmingly went with the majority.

Their answers for why they chose what they did varied, but most seems to honestly believe their answer. Indeed, a recent follow up looked at people’s brains in an MRI during the experiment and found their brain activity suggested they really did believe it.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/asch-conformity.html

Clearly this is just a simple experiment, but the correct line is so obvious that theoretically many of us could believe almost anything our group tells us. This could help to explain the many disparities in belief between democrats and republicans, election integrity, climate change, racism, etc.

 

I think that makes sense. No doubt that operation is part of doubling down and adopting the sincerely held belief, at some point in the process, that the election was in fact stolen.

But I'm still of the opinion, and this is nothing but personal supposition, that at some point it was just getting away with transgressive behavior, the equivalent of the raptors testing the fences in the original Jurassic Park. Once they realized the fences were not in fact electrified, a lot more behavior became possible.

 

Certainly there has to be some of this, but I think (and hope!) that these bad actors wouldn’t be supported by a large swath of regular Americans who didn’t think there was a legitimate concern with election integrity. E.g. one of my friends honestly believes that there is valid evidence to be suspicious of the result. This guy is a hyper intelligent lawyer (who took the LSAT! ), and if he can be convinced, it suggests almost anyone can be.

 

It's accurate. Two races would be overturned if the Cochise County's votes aren't certified, and ultimately rejected. One is the House race in the district, which would flip blue. The other is the Secretary of Education, which would also flip blue. Governor Elect Hobbs, who is currently the Secretary of State, could just look the other way and allow this to happen. But she's sued the county to get the vote certified, even if it costs the Ds two elections.

As for people believing in mass delusions, it's a result of a cult of personality. And Trump's sycophants have fully drank the orange kook-aid, and believe anything and everything Trump says, irrespective of actual evidence.

 

Love the LSAT joke. And obviously simple intelligence
Does not insulate one from going down these paths. I'm reminded of the New Yorker article on the very brilliant surgeon who completely destroyed his life for the Nigerian Prince. Even when he was under arrest and had lost everything he was still sending urgent messages to his Nigerian "contact" asking him to clear things up so that he would not suffer. He simply could not accept the truth. I don't know how to explain all that.

I similarly have a good friend that went down that path despite being extremely intelligent. He finally persuaded himself that it just wasn't possible.

I can only say how I view things. Certainly I'm not unbiased. But just the sheer thought of such a wide-ranging conspiracy with so many nodes in a decentralized system defies all human logic; it's not even plausible. You don't have to get into the motivations. It's simply not plausible. I just can't understand why anyone gives even five minutes thought.

My friend except that it wasn't true felt like the Democrats should just open everything up to dispel suspicions. I thought that was naïve, but I also told him everything already is open. One of the things about almost all governmental functions is that they are very open if you put in the energy. Elections especially. It's really rather banal how open it all is. Some of the real damage that the disinformation channels to is trying to persuade their viewers that everything is hidden when it's not. They don't even describe the pre-existing systems accurately.

I don't know the answer. I just know I'm tired of it all.

 

No, they said they meddled in the election. They tried to sway the dumb electorate who didn't know who to vote for through social media.

But that's not what this thread is about, is it?

 

And the Senate Intelligence Committee chaired by a Republican said they concluded Russia's meddling was intended to benefit trump. Why do we need to keep repeating this after all this time?

 

For some people wanting to believe something so much, the lie becomes their truth.

"People may be willing to condone statements they know to be false and even spread misinformation on social media if they believe those statements could become true in the future, according to research published by the American Psychological Association.

"Whether the situation involves a politician making a controversial statement, a business stretching the truth in an advertisement or a job seeker lying about their professional skills on a resume, people who consider how a lie might become true subsequently think it is less unethical to tell because they judge the lie’s broader message (or “gist”) as truer. The study was published in APA’s Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

“The rise in misinformation is a pressing societal problem, stoking political polarization and eroding trust in business and politics. Misinformation in part persists because some people believe it. But that’s only part of the story,” said lead author Beth Anne Helgason, a doctoral student at the London Business School. 'Misinformation also persists because sometimes people know it is false but are still willing to excuse it.'

"This study was sparked by cases in which leaders in business and politics have used claims that “it might become true in the future” to justify statements that are verifiably false in the present."

Lies that ‘might’ eventually come true seem less unethical

 

Quick update. First court appearance is today and the county can't find a lawyer to represent it. They hired one without consulting him, and the lawyer said no. He recommended another lawyer, but he refused to take the case too.

 

Katie Hobbs is a crook.

 

Because she won a free and fair election defeating an election denying acolyte of the defeated and deranged former president.

 

Evidence? Or you just don't like the fact that she beat a MAGA candidate in a fair and free election, and therefore, she must be crooked. Evidence be damned.

And if you are going to tell me that the Secretary of State oversees elections, and that it isn't fair she oversaw an election she won, there is a large division of election duties in Arizona to ensure fairness. For example, County recorders are responsible to register voters in their respective counties. And County Boards of Supervisors are responsible for printing ballots, running election sites, and counting the votes. The Secretary of State only gets involved at the end. Oh, and in Maricopa County, the largest in the state where the voting issues occurred, has a R County Recorder, and 4 out of the 5 Board members are Rs as well.

So, if you have no evidence Hobbs is a crook, you're just being a sore, whining, baby loser. Which is the MAGA way these days.

 

If ever a post deserved it ...

 

Sure, and Kari Lake is an abysmally awful person who is a morally bankrupt, moronic election denier, and whom routinely told McCain supporters to go to hell, but I’m sure that had nothing to do with why she lost, lol.

 

Arizona Election Day Problems Far Wider Than Maricopa County Admits: Report | ZeroHedge

Mark Sonnenklar doesn't think it's too stupid. He's a sharp guy who witnessed the entire day and shares they had many of the same problems in the primaries. His 23 page report tells us that KH's at best was grossly inept and at worst malfeasant. She was smart enough not to debate Lake though. I'll give her that. She would have been chewed up and spit out.

 

Look no further than this board, or this thread.