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Minneapolis Schools: Fire white teachers first

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorNorth, Aug 17, 2022.

  1. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    I’d be more focused on the city budgeting that cut teachers while funding the football stadium. There’s no need to reduce teachers which they aren’t.
     
  2. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Seniority accounts for years of service to the profession, whereas race does not. Your question about the fair way is on the mark. In an ideal world, teacher quality would determine retention and promotion, but teacher quality is extremely problematic. We have yet to devise a valid measure of TQ, or if we have, I've missed it. Too many of the TQ measures rely upon student performance, which is obviously flawed.

    Your last question is another good one. Given the demographic numbers in MN, this particular instance of anti-white racism would probably be rare, but that does not excuse the policy. Decreased student enrollment would be a primary factor impacting local budgets and forcing staff reductions.
     
  3. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    does the phrase last hired/first fired ring a bell? like it or not, that is life.
     
  4. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    except they don’t.

    they have two choices - fix their disparity immediately in an inequitable way, or fix it over time in a far more equitable one.
    If you do it by performance or lottery, then the proportion of teachers let go by race should be proportional. But the teachers retiring this year will be disproportionately white. Which means next year, without doing a single thing, the percentage of white teachers will go down (assuming you are hiring equitably). And that will continue to happen next year, and the year after, and the year after. Slower to a solution, but more fair.
    Or, as many private companies do, offer buy out packages to older teachers, which would disproportionately impact white ones here and get rid of higher salaries, and get some new blood in teaching which is always good. My company periodically offers buyouts to those over 50 with a given number of years of service, they could do that. And that would get you there quicker and still be a fair approach. They would be rewarded for their service and new folks would get a shot.
    So there are other ways to go about it that accomplish the same goals without doing the very thing they are trying to eliminate. Pointing that out isn’t fragile or lazy, even if you might disagree with those solutions. It’s ok to have different ideas on what’s right or fair.
     
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  5. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Do you think the teachers by and large supported it, or was the policy the work of a task force (I don't know)?
     
  6. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Good point. Perhaps there is another criterion other than race or seniority.
     
  7. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    I think you’re missing the fact that they are all performing. This isn’t performance based. It’s an assumed budget issue. Bad performers should be handled in the proper way regardless of minority status.
     
  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Its only life because some people decided it, now some people are deciding another way might be better
     
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  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    The union ultimately has to vote on the CBA, and the bargaining unit is appointed by the union membership
     
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  10. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    maybe i missed it, but have you come up with a fair solution other than last hired being let go, if so, let's hear it and how it is fair to all concerned.
     
  11. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    If other things accomplish the same goals, then a) it could still be spun by certain people as "anti-white" and b) could be viewed as back door "work around" by those same people who want to read sinister motives into everything or view it as illegal. So, why not be up front and transparent with your goals and policy?
     
  12. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I'm not sure there is a fair policy, but in a world where you don't have to hold on to a job for dear life because of dog eat dog competition, expensive healthcare and a job market dominated by employers, getting laid off is less of a big deal. That's my solution, power to the workers. A robust welfare state and universal healthcare. You'll always land on your feet that way. Capitalists want you to fight over your jobs, thats how they control you.
     
  13. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Respectfully, I feel the "white fragility" label was a cop out and indicative of a lack of any real knowledge regarding the topic. It certainly applies in some cases. What many people don't realize is that the demographics in MN are largely homogenous, but also dichotomous. The metro is basically the sole center for racial/ethnic diversity in MN. Even in Duluth, which I believe is the fourth largest city, white = 89% and AA = 2.4%. The rest of MN, excepting Rochester and pockets of suburbs are largely of Scandinavian decent.
    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/duluthcityminnesota/PST045221

    The hiring practices in the past were likely in-line with the in-state demographics.
     
  14. buckeyegator

    buckeyegator Premium Member

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    aka canada
     
  15. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    You don't know how the bargaining went, but claim the solution was agreed upon democratically? I don't believe, btw, that this was a state decision, but rather localized to a district. I'm not familiar with the CB process here, but wouldn't claim one way or the other regarding the nature & extent of democratic principles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
  16. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Yes, the union membership has to approve the CBA by voting on it. The union leaders can tell them "you need to vote for this" but plenty of unions have defied their leadership if they don't like the terms of a CBA. If this was unacceptable to a majority of the membership, it could easily be defeated.
     
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  18. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

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  19. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Thank you for going with something other than Venezuela or Cuba
     
  20. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Thanks - do the union members vote on this policy, or is it the work of the bargaining unit?

    Edit: I think you answered this above.