Joe Frazier vs. Mike Tyson

I ask the question (because I certainly don’t know)….
Grew up watching Tyson. And at his peak he would absolutely destroy opponents. Holyfield was a challenge, but was Tyson still in his prime? (Was Holyfield in his?)

But here is my question? Did Tyson have to run through as many elite opponents as Frazier? Maybe he did. Spinks was on the decline. Larry Holmes, same.

 

I ll take Frazier as he actually has wins against elite fighters. Whats Mikes biggest win. He lost to every legit fighter he fought.

 

Mike beat no one.

 

IMO, Mike was a relentless bull at a time when there really wasn't anyone to test his skills. Intimidation was a HUGE asset for him. I would put Holyfield in the discussion as to a "quality" champion whose time was just plain bad for evaluating. After these guys, the sport has pretty much gone away and MMA has taken over. Methinks for not good reasons, but that is just me.

Anyways, I realize that Frazier was beaten to a pulp by a similar brute in Foreman, but still, I think Foreman was a much better boxer in his prime than Tyson. Maybe in a single fight Tyson would have surprised Frazier and then he would have realized Tyson's schtick. And then he would win the next two fights.

Tyson was quite good entertainment, just not that good of a technical boxer.

 

If we are talkin boxin … no better fight than Hit Man vs Marvelous! Especially that first round!

 

Marvin Hagler was a class act all the way. They flat out robbed him of his belt against Leonard. That Hagler -Hearns fight was the best 3 rounds of boxing you’ll ever see.

As for heavyweights, Smokin Joe was my man. I would have loved to see him take down Tyson if that mythical fight ever happened. Loved Foreman from the Olympics on too.

 

Leonard vs. Hit Man was a great fight too.

 

I think the OP analysis is damn good. I think Frazier would take 2 of 3. He had better skills, more experience, and wasn’t intimidated by anyone.

There is only one thing about this discussion that we know for sure as fact; it would have been hellaciously fun to watch the two fight.

 

Tyson was very good when he was trained by Cus D’Amato and later Kevin Rooney, as well as managed by Jimmy Jacobs. Jacobs had a very large collection of fight films dating back to the early 20th century and they would watch and learn about the greats in all weight classes. Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano as well as Harry Greb, Mickey Walker and Sugar Ray Robinson.
But Cus died and so did Jacobs. Enter sleaze bag Don King. That was the downfall of Tyson. When Tyson lost the title to Buster Douglass, he had inexperienced friends as his corner men. A big example was the ridiculous use of a water filled balloon to reduce swelling around the eyes instead of a traditional enswell. It did not help that Tyson was not training well (Robin Givens) and paid little attention to Rooney.

That being said, Tyson over Frazier.

 

Ward vs Gatti fight 1 was the best fight I ever saw. Watch rounds 8 & 9. Just incredible

 

Frazier fought better competition and he had a slight height and reach advantage. It would certainly be an intriguing match up but, my money would be on Smoking Joe.

 

Frank Bruno and Razor Ruddock. I'd have to say that's the two best fighters that Tyson ever beat and who in the hell are they but some very good contenders.

 

Frazier beat Ali the first time and knocked him down in a 15 rd fight. Yes, Ali was coming back from suspension. Second fight was a decision for Ali, but very close. 3rd, the Manila, Frazier's corner threw in towel after 14....why? Joe was always blind in one eye, legally blind. One good eye was closing so the corner knew he would be 95-100% blind in 15th. It likely would have been a decision for Ali. Joe vs Forman was a fight of mismatched styles. George was too big and could push a fighter like Joe away and land upper cuts. But in his prime, Joe beat Ali, Buster Mathis (who should have been the Olympic USA rep). Joe beat a lot of top contenders, Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo (who nobody could knock down), Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Joe Bugner, et al.

Tyson had that similar style of getting close. But who were the top contenders? Did he fight Riddick Bowe who was 43-1 in his heavy weight career, no. How about Lennox Lewis? Frank Bruno pooped (joke) when he got in ring and looked into Mike's eyes (see the fight intro, he looks scared). Evander was a almost great fighter, but not quite. Buster Douglas got Mike at the wrong time for Mike. Yep, celebs and boxers make for bad mojo and losses.

I have a Smokin Joe Frazier tee I wear to gym. So I have to go with Joe. Plus he never served time.

As to Hearns and Hagler. Hearns broke his hand in Round 1. Watch fight. But I still loved Tommy, met him in New Orleans walking down the street, nice guy to just stand and chat about past and up coming fight he had with Wilfredo Benitez. Hagler was better though. Left handed, right handed, boxer, counter puncher, heavy hands, over all the Most Disrespected fighter of all. IMHO, he won the fight vs Leonard. He was the Best of the Four Kings (Duran, Hagler, Leonard, and Hearns). Have that tee shirt too.

The upcoming Crawford-Canelo fight should be interesting.

BTW- O. Usyk is one Great Fighter. Best massive Tyson Fury 2x. That guy can box and get inside. May go down as one of the greatest heavy weights of all time.

 

Holyfield was great. He was a cruiser fighting at heavy. Lennox was the best heavyweight of that generation and only had size on Evander . All things equal, Holyfield was better.

 

The thing is prime Tyson didn't just win, he destroyed and sometimes ended careers. Trevor Berbick, Larry Holmes, and Michael Spinks. He also fought Frank Bruno, Pinklon Thomas, and Tony Tucker, among others. The problem with comparing boxers from 2 different periods is the same when comparing Michael Jordan with LeBron James. Tyson was built for speed, strength and the best defensive stance anyone has ever seen. In his prime, you couldn't touch Tyson. He evaded everything thrown his way and here's the biggest point, Tyson didn't fight guys his size, he fought guys far bigger than him and he dominated them. Frazier won matches against guys his size and lost all of his matches against boxers who were bigger. Ali and Foreman were bigger fighters. Of his 4 losses, 3 came from Ali and Foreman, all 3 were by knock out. Once Tyson lost D'Amato, his world fell apart. 1985 was his peak, had D'Amato lived longer, Tyson would have finished undefeated and all by KO. Once Don King got involved, Tyson's world unraveled.

The same with MJ vs LK. MJ didn't hit the weights, he might have practiced in the gym but basketball players of his era never life weights, didn't bother with being muscular like players are today. When people try to compare the 2, I always add a caveat, you either bring Jordan into the present and imagine if he had the same training program LJ has or you bring LJ back to Jordan's era without any weight training or supplementation. What would Lebron have been if he was soft? Or what about Jordan if he had hit the gym?

That's why I think Jim Brown might have been the best RB of all time. He was Derrick Henry x 3 at an age when the idea of a 6' 2" 230lb RB with lightning speed didn't exist. Can you imagine if Jim Brown had hit the weight room? So the idea of trying to compare Frazier to Tyson is impossible. It's like arguing over Rocky Marciano and Ali.

 

I think Tyson would have been too intimidating for Frazier. Frazier was already blind in one eye. He wouldn't want to come out of the fight with one ear.

 

Berbick Holmes and Spinks is laughable. Holmes came out of retirement from three years and was already a shell of himself and Spinks was a light heavyweight. I can't believe people think beating a light heavyweight is some kind of accomplishment for a heavyweight

 

Few boxers in history would get up after the 0.28 mark of this clip. Ali was one of the few.

 

Great comments and input. Correct, almost impossible to compare fighters from different eras. Going back to subject, think about Sugar Ray Robinson. He went 121-1 starting his pro career. He fought Jake Lamotta 7 times, I think, lost the first and won the next 6. He was, imho, pound for pound the Greatest Boxer of all time. Thankfully, as a child, about 7-9 years old, my grandfather took me to see him put on a 3 round exhibition. He was way past his prime, but I do recall his movements since we were in ring side row 1 or 2. I ended up going to dozens of live fights, watched dozens on those big screen (like a movie screen) pay for view fights. Saw John The Beast Mugabi fight live 6 or 7 times prior to his match with Hagler. Saw George Foreman live, right after he won Gold in 68.