War in Ukraine

I wouldn't bet my house on it. If Trump hadn't been jerking Ukraine around since he took office and actually continued to provide weapons both offensive and defensive maybe Putin would actually be at the negotiating table. With Russia currently winning on the ground it's not going to happen anytime soon. It's only been a couple of months since Trump and his buddy JD Vance publicly humiliated Zelensky while praising Putin. Hopefully this time Trump is really serious about ending the war and not doing so in a manner in which he surrenders Ukraine to Russia.

 

Maybe. I wouldn’t. Even if you handed over the weapons right now, it would take around 50 days to integrate and employ them. If the weapons are already in Ukrainian hands, then that gives Putin even more to consider.

 

That’s why the distinction is important. We are part of NATO. The most significant part. So “NATO paying” does mean Canada and the European members sharing the cost, but we would still pay a large share, I believe.

 

glad to see it. Like I mentioned before. If their defense isn’t important enough for their money then it isn’t important for mine

 

what do you call the racket when for decades your ‘partners’ are not spending their own money on defense and then r demanding the US swoop in from 4000 miles away and send its citizen soldiers to die on their behalf . That’s far more of a ‘racket’ than asking a ‘partner’ to actually pay up. Again. If your defense of your country is not important enough for you to spend your money then it’s certainly not important enough for me to spend mine.

 

I think we are 99%’in agreement. All I was saying is I’m glad to see those seeing the biggest benefit of American arms/tech/ingenuity finally actually paying for it and not lecturing the US that we should be requiring our taxpayers and citizens to foot their defense bill

 

That’s incredibly shortsighted to act like it’s not to our benefit. Just as it’s to our benefit to ensure all are vaccinated regardless of ability to pay or prioritization of the unvaccinated’s money, a free democratic Europe as counterbalance to Russia is directly to our benefit. I have no problem holding Europe’s feet to the fire to get them to contribute more, but let’s not pretend we don’t need Eutope stable and as they are.

 

Glad to see Trump coming around on this issue - even if it meant coming at it from another angle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/07/14/trump-ukraine-weapons-sanctions/

It will be interesting if he follows through on sanctions and tariffs - of Russia oil, which would presumably affect India and China.

 

I didn't realize that Russia's potatoes (kilograms) are different than our potatoes (pounds). Maybe that's why they consume so much borscht.

 

Excellent question. That is not entirely clear to me. The language that stood out to me was the repeated phrase that "NATO would pay," versus "European NATO members would pay." Without more clarity, I infer that it's as I suggest: there will be more of a shared burden for these U.S. weapons, but the U.S. will still share much of the cost.

 

And, you know what else was to our benefit? Leading the Western civilized world opened doors for our companies to sell its goods with access open like no other country on earth. Now, we see the benefits of turning on our allies and watching the slow evaporation for the thirst for American goods. But … MAGA, the short-sighted answer to questions not asked.
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This is one of the few issues that I (partially) agree with Trump on. Western Europe and NATO are considered to be some of the wealthiest countries on the earth. Now, I am not a complete fool when it comes to the overall politics of the situation, YES, the USA was funding much of the military security of Western Europe and NATO military support mechanisms but anyone thinking it through would also have to consider the leverage this gave the USA in many areas - strategically, location of bases, power projection and the many economically related issues. I assure anyone reading this post that the USA military / industrial complex were not exactly promoting an abandonment of traditional USA military support for this part of the world.

It's not simply "transactional".

But certainly Trump was not being unreasonable to expect these countries to spend a higher % of GDP for their own defense. I would also add many NATO countries are doing exactly that now.

 

The 50 day window likely gives time for China and India to reign Russia in. It’s worth noting that if those sanctions do what they purport they will, they would bite much harder than the window dressing sanctions previously put into place. In any event, the weapons systems are the headline; not the sanctions.

 

My understanding is NATO would be providing "current" military stocks to Ukraine while upgrading stocks with newer and more modernized equipment, much of which is manufactured in the USA.

 

More ATACMS apparently.

 

So she sees it too ?