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U.S. May Have Only Five Years of Oil Left

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Jun 21, 2025 at 10:07 AM.

  1. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    So when, exactly, do we get to regulate a product that causes harm? What is the threshold for you?
     
  2. gator_jo

    gator_jo GC Hall of Fame

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    You'd be in favor of renewable energy, increasing fuel efficiency mandates, and gently using tax policy to encourage conservation and responsible energy use ........ if only the mean people weren't unkind to you?

    Interesting. That seems like something you should be able to get over. But I hear that from Trump voters too. They elected him because I am .... condescending and elitist. Or worse.

    Nah, it's just an agenda you don't favor advancing. We use government and tax policy, and social encouragement, to direct productive behavior all the time.

    You enraged about insurance and seat belt laws? High taxes on tobacco and alcohol? Or do those just make sense? Environmental and energy responsibility actually makes sense too.
     
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  3. flgator2

    flgator2 GC Hall of Fame

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  4. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    He provided you the levelized cost of electricity. Without any tax credits, onshore wind has a levelized cost (which includes their capital cost as well as operations and maintenance, variable costs, and transmission cost) of $50.79 per megawatt hour. Natural Gas has a cost of $64.55 per megawatt hour.
     
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  5. altalias

    altalias GC Hall of Fame

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    Dang you hang on to cars a long time. My daughter's friend in high school drove a Prius. She graduated in 2004. (They came to the U S. In 2000)

    I drive one. But I don't get any brownie points. I just found and old one with remarkedly low miles for an exceptional price and I'm cheap.

    My niece told me I couldn't date hot women driving a Prius. I'm in my late 60s, I don't think the car is why I'm not dating hot women.
     
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  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    In this case, that's like hearing your wife say that the bank accounts are running out of money, and no one is working, and responding with "Why can't we use a mix of spending, like ATM withdrawals, writing checks, and using credit cards? Will that work?" as she grabs a 2"x4" and walks up silently behind you . . .

    Using a mix of energy is fine, as long as it corresponds to a rapid reduction in the use of oil. That means we need to rapidly take measures to encourage uses of forms of energy not named "oil". You want to do this as far in advance as possible before you get anywhere near running out of oil or becoming dependent on OPEC. The U.S. economy will not turn on a dime, and U.S. consumers cannot all afford to buy EV's in a 1-2 year time frame. It could push the U.S. into a Depression, if Trump doesn't push us into one first.

    Peak oil actually did occur in 1972, and it led to U.S. dependence on OPEC for oil, which led to oil embargoes in 1973 and 1981. Our economy was not very good in the 1973 - 1981 time frame, and oil dependence on OPEC was a big part of that. Fracking gave us an independence from OPEC for a while, but it will not last (obviously). Peak oil will be back within 5 years, apparently. Most people have forgotten what a truly bad economy is like for an extended period, but it's not a good thing. Let's not burn the house down.
     
  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    My daughter might get a Prius, but I needed something larger for hauling things. My Highlander just turned ten. In 2015, there was a hybrid Highlander, but it was relatively new and quite a bit more expensive than the regular one.
     
  8. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    I had a 2015 Highlander. It was a great vehicle and I might still be driving it if someone didn’t total it.
     
  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We have not been at peak oil since 1919. All you are telling me is that you don't know what peak oil is. Peak oil is when you cannot possibly produce any more with the current technology, and you cannot produce enough to satisfy domestic demand while leaving yourself vulnerable to foreign oil cartels. Peak oil means you need to start importing a large percentage of your oil, as you put yourself at the mercy of your (OPEC) suppliers, who will begin to operate like they have a monopoly on oil. Peak oil was predicted in the late 1950's by the CEO of Shell, believing it would happen in 1972. It actually happened in 1971. Fracking reduced our oil imports from 65% in 2005 to 52% in 2011 (with the U.S. actually exporting more than it imported in 2011).

    The U.S. used 20.25B barrels of oil/day in 2023, and imported 8B barrels/day, and exported 4B barrels/day on average. So, we are not independent of foreign oil, but the dependency was half as much as it was in 1975, when 39% of our oil was imported. Back in 1965, only 21% of our oil was imported. So, apparently, 20% imports gives the U.S. plenty of ability to negotiate for good oil prices internationally, while 40% does not.

    I've done the equivalent of driving a car into a concrete barrier at 55 mph (thanks to a drunk driver going the wrong way on a freeway). I had to wait until the drunk died before I got medical assistance (the EMT's work on the most badly injured first). Not a day goes by when one of the four surgeries resulting from that crash doesn't cause me pain.

    Fortunately, when the oil runs out, it theoretically will not be quite like driving (our economy) into a concrete barrier at 55 mph. But the devastation to the economy will be real, and we will not be able to reverse it before it's too late, if we don't start now. Yes, it would be painful to make the changes, but nowhere near as painful as driving full speed into that concrete barrier. Americans would be helpless sitting in line for gas for hours and hours, waiting for a tanker to pull up and refill the gas station's tanks. Unemployment would go up as American businesses shuttered their doors due to the high cost of transportation as OPEC jacked the price of oil up sky high. We might see a return of our old nemesis stagflation after we tried stimulus for a while to keep the economy afloat. There is nothing that an oil-producing nation would like to see more than their wealthiest customer wasting oil and begging for more at any price.

    I don't think that any of that makes me "uppity". It makes me forward-thinking. A lot of people who are backwards-thinking ignore catastrophes until the devastation is upon them. Then they shrug their shoulders and say there isn't anything they could have done, even though that isn't true. Europeans are in a much better position than Americans to weather the peak oil storm, even though they produce very little of their own oil. They have been taxing oil products heavily for decades now. Their people have been forced to make compromises, and they have been educated to understand that wasting natural resources is a bad idea. (They survived.) You sound like an elderly grandpa yelling "I'll give up my 1965 Chevy pickup when you pry the steering wheel out of my dead hands!"

    If my "agenda" of not driving into a concrete barrier at full speed is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
     
  10. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    Chemgator, if ok whats your background in this area? It seems like you had some relevant experience.
     
  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I work downstream of the petroleum businesses. I work in a plant that uses a product of refineries and turns it into a chemical that's not quite commodity (huge volumes), and not quite specialty (small volumes). (Our products are often used in housing construction and automotive.) I also help out with overseas startups and troubleshooting. I used to work in one of the largest chemical plants in the U.S., taking my turn at research engineering, pilot plant research, and manufacturing.

    I am by no means an expert in petroleum engineering or Refinery design or operations. But it is important for me to know where my raw materials are coming from, and where else they are going. I do know that the chemical industry can be resilient under some circumstances, and fragile under others. I don't like to see supply disruptions.
     
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  12. chuikov

    chuikov VIP Member

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    Don’t believe hype. Dog, dog, dog eat dog!
     
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  13. slocala

    slocala VIP Member

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    WSJ reporting early stage talks (for maybe the 50th time) between Shell and BP.

    https://www.wsj.com/business/energy...3591a?st=XHLKMJ&reflink=article_copyURL_share


    “Shell is holding early stage talks to acquire rival BP in what would be the largest oil deal in a generation, people familiar with the matter said. Talks between company representatives are active, the people said, and BP is considering the approach carefully. Acquiring BP would put Shell on firmer footing to challenge larger competitors such as Exxon Mobil and Chevron. It would be a landmark combination of two so-called supermajor oil companies, a group of multinational behemoths that dominate the production of the world’s most important energy sources.

    Potential terms of any deal couldn’t be learned and a tie-up is far from certain, the people familiar with the matter warned. The discussions are moving slowly, one of the people added. BP is currently valued at around $80 billion. Taking into account a premium, a deal could end up as the largest corporate oil deal since the $83 billion megamerger that created Exxon Mobil at the turn of the century. It would also easily be the biggest M&A deal of the year, so far, in a market that has been rattled by President Trump’s trade war and other geopolitical tensions.

    A Shell spokesman said: “As we have said many times before, we are sharply focused on capturing the value in Shell through continuing to focus on performance, discipline and simplification.”
     
  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Aren’t we like 45 years into only five years of oil left ?
     
  15. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    Interesting to say the least. Royal Shell and British Petroleum. Seems like a match that could have been made decades ago.
     
  16. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    Gee, I guess we'll just have to lean into that 100+ year supply (that we know of) of NG. And people, biggest threat to US oil production at this point is the oil price. If it gets too low, it becomes a money loser and they'll stop drilling. Keep it at a price where they can make money and we've got enough to last to the end of the century by most accounts.
     
  17. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    My understanding of imports is that this isn't about supply but refining capacity. I.E. A lot of ours are still set up for the rawer product from SA and Venezuela (though that's changing). So we continue to import for that reason and because we can sell our much higher quality oil for a higher price on the world market. But I will defer to you on this. Sounds like your products come from that dirtier oil (or not).
     
  18. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Let me guess…

    You had your Tesla and Elon hurt your feelings so now you have a Rivian (other electric). And are powering with carbon emissions to charge your battery with inefficient returns?

    I think electric has a real place in the market. But the hydrocarbon is 100% one of the most fascinating and efficient ways to enhance living on this amazing creation. Electric works great for short distance needs (using the hydrocarbon). But it is not ready to be the full answer.

    This is a complex issue that will take centuries to evolve…
     
  19. CHFG8R

    CHFG8R GC Hall of Fame

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    We need better battery tech. Lithium Ion is dirty to produce and not that efficient. I saw something where Honda or Toyota (no surprise) was working on a solid-state battery that would almost double capacity and be cleaner to produce. This will be the key to opening up electric, IMO, along with designs like this new Slate pickup.



    I love this because of the component nature of it, something electric should have done from the beginning (but refused to move from the dealership service model). I've always maintained that easy maintenance should be one of the biggest selling points for electric due to the plug-and-play nature of it. This opens up a whole lot of avenues for 3rd parties and even 3D printing for parts and customization. Not sure if it will work, but I love the idea. I could see having one of these on a ranch, and just plugging it in near the barn with a solar power station, etc.
     
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  20. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    Solid state batteries would still use lithium cathodes. The solid of solid state refers to the electrolyte, not specifically anode/cathose chemistry. SS would be more energy dense and safer than current lion batts.

    It's gonna be hard to leave lithium as a cathode material for transportation given weight concerns in vehicles. There's no shortage of it currently. In fact, after a covid-era spike, lithium is priced very low despite growing demand. Projected demand is predicted to spike and I believe other chemistries should be used for stationary grid storage and lithim used for transportation.
     
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