Just saw where the USS Carl Vinson is one of the 2 carriers over there. I'm kinda relieved my grandson Colin was sent home, he was a crew member on the Carl Vinson until about a month ago when he fell down a set of stairs and injured his back so they sent him home. If he was still there I would be awful nervous everytime there was news of an air strike or rocket strike.
And non Muslims take part in the Iranian government. In fact their constitution requires representation for religious minorities. But there is no question in my mind that non-Jews wont govern Israel and non-Muslims wont govern Iran as ruling parties or politicians. I'm not even sure an Israeli government has had Muslim parties in governing coalitions. If so, its been rare.
Well about 90% of the Jews left Iran and later khomeni said this “At the end of the discussion Khomeini declared, "We recognize our Jews as separate from those godless, bloodsucking Zionists"[63] and issued a fatwa decreeing that the Jews were to be protected.[65]” I’d hardly call this a ringing endorsement of Jewish tolerance.
I wasnt aware he ever meant anything else other than what you are saying. But "we are only doing apartheid in places under occupation" isnt much of a defense.
Ok but we’re getting pretty granular here. Why are you demanding that Israel give ups its Jewish identity as part of an outline to a future peace? If they actually gave up their religious affiliation do you Hamas and Palestinians would agree to a peace, and would you demand that Hamas and Palestinians not have any religious affiliation in whatever government they formed?
Israel has never moved in like this because the resistance would be too great, and cooperation non-existent. And the end result would be only to create more future terrorists. As you say, the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Highly doubtful enough has changed in the area to believe anything has actually changed.
"Our Jews are ok" So maybe this is all more about nationalism than religion eh? Which seems to put the claims that everything is about religious hatred to bed.
After that Israel unilaterally vacated Gaza and dismantled the Jewish settlements there. How did that work out?
When we bombarded and eradicated much of ISIS, including tens of hundreds of thousands as collateral damage, did it “only create more terrorists”?
It sounds better than saying Israeli killed thousands of Hamas fighters and their senior leadership while also going through a more legally rigorous targeting process than the US used in Iraq.
The only way to be sure you got every Hamas member is to be sure you get every Hamas sympathizer. How do you do that without what Hamas and other ME nations will call ethnic cleansing? As for ISIS, there are still about 15,000 members reportedly in Syria and Iraq. And approximately 10k Al Qaeda living in Somalia. There's also thousands more still in jails across the world. Despite years of bombing and drone attacks, these terrorists organizations still exist. Sure, they aren't attacking the US, but then, they live halfway across the US. It's not like Hamas and Israel, who are next door neighbors. It's not like ISIS or AQ can lob cheaply made missiles into the US like Hamas can into Israel. Nor can ISIS or AQ members can paratroop into US territories with ease.
I agree but I just want to understand from his perspective what about what’s going on is “ethic cleansing”.
So it seems like you are making an all or nothing argument - if you can’t eradicate 100% of terrorists you should just live with them and accept the ongoing resulting terrorism. It seems like you are either denying that ISIS has been significantly diminished and is much less of a threat.
How do we know ISIS and AQ have been significantly diminished? Because they stopped attacks? Hamas stopped attacks for about 18 months before Oct 7. Patience is often a key for terrorists. Vigilance is key for their potential targets. Israel got complacent with their wall and iron dome and if you told them on Oct 6 what was coming, they never would have believed it to be possible. Similarly, if you asked Americans on Sept 10 if a 9/11 attack was possible, many wouldn't have believed it was. And if you go after every Hamas member and sympathizer in Gaza, and kill them, Hamas and the ME nations will call it ethnic cleansing. And much of the world will agree with this assessment.
Terrorism is subjective and can never be eradicated - because its a tactic. I just got an alert that India is now bombing Pakistan because of "terrorism" - this obsession that terrorism is intolerable and we must be at war with it everywhere is literally destroying our country and has destabilized the world and resulted in genocide, ethnic cleansing and mass displacement of people. To pose the same rhetorical question you posed ... how is that working out? We will not kill ourselves or anyone to safety.
So you are saying that in spite of all evidence to the contrary, our efforts against ISIS in vain and they may be just as strong and we don’t know it? Do you have any evidence to back that up? Seems like a pretty fringe assessment of the facts. So if middle easterners and others in the world mischaracterise this as ethnic cleansing, then it is ethic cleansing? Are you saying it’s ethnic cleansing or changing your argument?
I'm saying being complacent and believing we are not subject to attack is wrong. Israel believed this on Oct 6. Between a misplaced belief in the wall, the iron dome, and being lulled to sleep from months of Hamas inactivity, Israel was complacent. Maybe have have significantly lowered the capabilities of terrorist groups wishing us harm. But maybe we haven't? Who really knows. All I know is that the threat isn't zero, and there are still tens of thousands of free AQ and ISIS members roaming around the planet. What would you call it? And how do you fight the propaganda coming from ME countries calling it ethnic cleansing? What you and I call what the Israelis would do to try and destroy all of Hamas means nothing. But if on the world stage, Palestine earns a lot of sympathy and Israel scorn, it's going to hamper Israel's ability to completely root out Hamas. Which may not be possible to begin with. Again, look at AQ and ISIS. They still exist despite our best efforts. And it's a lot easier for Hamas to target Israel than ISIS and AQ the US because of geography.
