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Neil DeGrasse Tyson vs Ben Shapiro on transgenders in sports

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Shapiro believes that you can call yourself whatever you want, just don't demand others to call you something that you are not, and accept that you're not entitled to compete with sports that do not align with the gender you were assigned at birth.

    Tyson wants you to dig your head in the sand and just stop talking about it or pretend like it's not a big deal to women if we just completely desegregated sports.

    Libs say Tyson "owned" Shapiro.

    Also, as a clarification for forum rules... I thought you needed a link to one of the major news outlets around here if you wanted to start a thread. I thought a mere tweet like this was not enough to comply with forum rules. If it is enough, I would start more threads of this sort.
     
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  2. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Also for those unfamiliar with the "Sunday Special," it's far from a "debate" in any sense of the word. He's had all sorts of people he disagrees with on that show and it's always a friendly discussion, not a debate.
     
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  3. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    This argument always amuses me.

    I don't think anyone is denying that there are people who suffer from gender dysphoria, people who are gay, etc.

    All we have is a disagreement regarding categorization. Are people who suffer from gender dysphoria the gender which they claim to be just because they claim to be that particular gender? If true that would be like saying an anorexic 80-pound woman is in reality morbidly obese.
     
  5. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    A piece of me almost wants to say: "Okay libs, you win... Let's desegregate the sports and see how many members of the 'U.S. women's soccer team' make the new and reformed 'U.S. soccer team.'"

    I don't say that because I know there are thousands, maybe millions of female athletes who know that this is a problem but are too scared to say anything, and it's not fair to them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
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  6. 108

    108 Premium Member

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    About 55% of Republicans say homosexuality should be accepted, and 37% say it should be discouraged in society.

    I believe Christians generally consider homosexuality to be a sin still.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. gatorchamps960608

    gatorchamps960608 GC Hall of Fame

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    Transgenders make up a half of one percent of the US population. The right's never ending focus on them is their typical technique for the rubes so they can pick their pockets while they are distracted.

    FYI, I know of no "liberals" who passionately believe these people should have the right to compete in any sporting event they want.
     
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  8. surfn1080

    surfn1080 Premium Member

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    Yes since most Christians tend to be conservative, that poll makes sense.

    I have always said that my beliefs say it’s wrong to be gay, it’s also says to not judge or treat people with ill manor.
    People have the freedom on how to live their life and shouldn’t have any more or less rights than me.
    I also don’t treat someone differently because of how they live their life as long as it’s not violent or hurting others.
     
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  9. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    LOL. Look right here on this thread for examples of posters you know who think it's fine for trans people to compete with women.
     
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  10. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Didn't Neil DeGrasse Tyson kick Pluto out of the solar system?
     
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  11. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    I should have added that while most watches are relatively (not a pun) accurate, some are way off if not stopped altogether.
    BTW, good choice not to use Locke's observation.:D
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
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  12. helix

    helix VIP Member

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    Frankly I don't know that NDT "destroys" Ben Shapiro. Shapiro's question was specifically about sports. NDT says it doesn't matter except for sports. Generally, I'll agree, with the exception of there is also quite a bit of muddiness around the idea of treatment of minors, which I am not for. But for consenting adults, do what you want and I'll support your right to do so, so long as you support my right to not participate in your choices and allow that I can respectfully disagree with your choices and opinions and allow that such disagreement does not mean I hate you as a person nor does it mean I am fearful of such things any more than my refusal to go worship at a synagogue or mosque or hindu temple or even my belief that Christianity is true which inherently means other religions are not means I fear or hate others of those religions.

    But that said, back to sports. We segregate by gender because women are generally not competitive in men's sports. Period. If we didn't, there would be little opportunity for women to play beyond developmental/recreational levels. Certainly not where money gets involved. Heck, it took Title IX for women to be able to play competitively at the college level because the economics weren't (and in many cases still aren't) there. Sure, you could roll back Title IX and just de-segregate sports, but IMO that would be the death of the majority of women's sports at the high school and collegiate levels due to the financials. I also suspect creating a platform for competition specifically for transgender women wouldn't work either, as I suspect there just aren't enough of them to actually field competitive leagues without just having the teams exist at a small handful of schools or completely forcing it and diluting the competition levels tremendously.

    The things that make men better athletes are generally beyond hormone levels. Bone density, size, and structure, muscle structures, amount and type of muscle fibers, etc. are an advantage for men who have gone through puberty. No amount of hormone therapy, blockers, or surgery can change some of those things, and in contact sports it can actually create a safety issue. Thus, allowing many transgender women (and I would suspect most, though admittedly I don't have data to support my assumption that most transgenders begin their transition post-puberty) to compete in women's sports is inherently disadvantaging biological women. I get the desire of transgender women to belong and be treated as women, but facts are facts and they can no more equitably compete in women's sports than a biological man can give birth. It isn't fair to them, but life is not fair. FTR, I have no problem with transgender men (or women, or anyone else for that matter) competing against biological men.

    You could go the route of segregating by those who have gone through male puberty and those who have not gone through male puberty, but that may prove an administrative nightmare, especially at the highest levels of competition. How do you validate that, especially given puberty starts at different ages for different people?

    IMO NDT is correct that there just isn't a good answer.
     
  13. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    The good answer is to repudiate all the ridiculousness and stick to natural biology.
     
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  14. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think it was originally his decision but he did agree that Pluto didn't qualify as a planet.
     
  15. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Women fought for decades to have fairness in things like college sports, and you think some dude should be able to just make a claim and take that away?

    Looks like the "war on women" has a new front.

    Remember the other day when you insulted my wife and daughters by manufacturing a false narrative of my view of strong women? A lot of strong women would say the same about anyone wanting males to play their sport.

    Some of you guys live in a weird fringe of society and you think you are the mainstream.
     
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  16. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    His narrow minded position on smaller celestial masses is very intolerant. ;)
     
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  17. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Lol. This from the group that says we are "shoving our religion in their faces" when we discuss them on free message boards.
     
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  18. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    A tweet with the actual sources contained is OK. In this case, the sources are the participants in the discussion.

    So this one passes.
     
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  19. jjgator55

    jjgator55 GC Hall of Fame

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    A couple of things. I never mentioned your wife and daughters in any post, you did when you had a hissy about being told you have a problem with strong women after attacking RM. I also recall you attacking me personally in several posts.

    The other thing is just a suggestion that you actually read my posts before responding to them. I’m only telling you this because we get along so well, and I don’t want to ruin our relationship.
     
  20. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    When you tell me I have an issue with strong women you are either telling me I have an issue with my wife and daughters....or that they are not strong women. Either way, its pretty insulting as well as nonsense based on the limited diagnosis you can make from a message board where a specific topic is in play.

    When I make a comment about the topic of a thread, you can't extrapolate out over every topic.

    Example: I may defend DeSantis in an anti DeSantis thread, but would chose Romney over DeSantis. My defense of DeSantis is topic specific. My support for him is based on the prospective field, not an imaginary one. (I only use RD in this thread as an example of how what may appear as staunch support within a singular topic may be not translate universally.)

    As for relationship, I'm a believer that all of them can be good if we really want them to be. I'm down, how about you?

    [​IMG]
     
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