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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas Moderator

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    That's a good question however Jen's presser believes a significant number of the Russian population are against it but offers no proof other than unnamed journalists that are speaking out against it.. What we do know is who ever is against it will be silenced.
     
  2. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator VIP Member

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    Ukraine's major weakness is stationary SAM launch sites. Beefing up their air defense has been on the table a few times but there was always worry about Russia ending up with those weapons. Other NATO leaders came to the same conclusion. They do have potent anti-tank weapons, no thanks to Trump. The've taken out a few tanks already and reportedly some aircraft as well. Latvia recently provided them with Stingers. That might be what was used to take out those aircraft.
     
  3. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    I've seen some reports that the Saudis might not be playing ball. We know the Iranians will not.

    There is open source reporting that Putin has saved up somewhere north of $500B ahead of this operation. China is opening wheat exports to Russia. It looks like Putin is prepared to whether what is coming but the best laid plans, etc etc.

    I see your point about Ukranians but they need to stay in Europe to ensure that they can support efforts against the Russians and hopefully re-constitute the nation when the Russian withdraw happens.
     
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  4. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Very well laid out.
     
  5. surfn1080

    surfn1080 Premium Member

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    Germany is a really good example of why not to be dependent on any one country for something, especially for energy reasons.

    Does anyone know why we are still buying oil from Russia? I know it's a small amount considering how much we import from countries like Canada but we should stop that immediately.
     
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  6. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Thinking the oligarchs might beat the generals to it
     
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  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Because Russian oil is cheaper when delivered to west coast and west coast refineries are not set up to process canadian sour
     
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  8. surfn1080

    surfn1080 Premium Member

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    So keep being a financial asset to Russia is the better answer?

    Wish we would focus more on local production than overseas especially from a country like Russia.
     
  9. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

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    Declassifying Putin’s false flags and decisions in real time was really a smart move. It stripped Putin of any justification for his actions other than a naked land crap.
     
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  10. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas Moderator

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    I agree with you concerning the Iranians and the Saudis. I suspect Venezula will not play ball either. I also doubt Norway can provide any more than they currently do. It's a fine pickle we have woven ourselves into.

    As for the Ukranian population of 43 million citizens it depends on how many people elect to beat feet. As for those that do the question remains as to whether or not they would elect to go back and join a resistance without some assurance of foreign support that matches or exceeds Russian troops. No point in choosing to fight a losing battle when you have a spouse and children to support.
     
  11. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

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    Gary Kasparov said once that in Russian elections they can tell you the result before they even vote.
     
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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    That same thought process resulted in lots of jews being slaughtered in the camps
     
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  13. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I am just not sure why you would assume that. They took it the first time in the 1600s, I think, and held it up until WWI. After a brief flirtation with independence, they took it right back again and held it, even starving it into submission under Stalin. Then they lost it briefly to the Germans but took it right back again, holding until the enterprise crashed in 1991. One might argue darkly that the Russians are better at holding Ukraine than Ukrainians are.

    I think we need to stop fooling ourselves. The most likely sequence of events on the current course is 1. Ukraine fights bravely but loses the conventional war and its physical territory; 2. Russia crushes any dissent and any insurgency (we seem to forget they’ve forgotten more about putting down rebellions from subject peoples than we ever learned, and they’re willing to do a lot things that we’re not); 3. The sanctions have no discernible effect and we end up negotiating them away to keep Russia in check over some other subject; 4. Ukraine becoming a vassal state of Russia, like Belorus, becomes the new normal; 5. Russia begins to cast covetous eyes on something else it feels it is entitled to.

    We need to face facts. Only armed intervention is going to stop Russia at this point. And if we’re collectively unwilling (because ability is not an issue), then fine. But the alternative is what I wrote above, barring a miracle.
     
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  14. gatorzilla91

    gatorzilla91 All American

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    It’s really disheartening to see some of you roll over and say there’s nothing we can do about Russia taking over Ukraine.

    We’re watching a country fall and innocent people being killed before our very eyes. Does that not boil your blood at all?
     
  15. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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  16. 1990Gator

    1990Gator VIP Member

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  17. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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  18. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    No, it doesn't boil my blood.
    What I don't want to see is is a single American serviceman die over this.
     
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  19. 1990Gator

    1990Gator VIP Member

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    Biden on the sanctions:

    “No one expected the sanctions to prevent anything from happening. This is gonna take time, and we have to show resolve, so he knows what’s coming and so the people of Russia know what he’s brought on them. That’s what this is all about,” Biden said during a press conference. “This is gonna take time, it’s not gonna occur, he’s gonna say ‘Oh my God these sanctions are coming I’m gonna stand down’. He’s gonna test the resolve of the west to see if we stay together, and we will.”

    His Administration on the sanctions:

    This directly contradicts the statements made by Vice President Kamala Harris, who said Sunday “the purpose of the sanctions has always been and continues to be deterrence.” Some reporters pointed out that the statement from Biden wasn’t consistent with his administration’s stance. “I thought that was so interesting when President Biden said, ‘No one expected sanctions to prevent anything.’ Actually, that’s exactly what his foreign policy team said again and again, and it’s what his secretary of state said to me on Sunday,” CBS reporter Margaret Brennan said.

    Incredible.
     
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  20. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, it does. And we are capable of stopping it. And we won’t.
     
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