WTH??? Obama math: under new Common Core, 3 x 4 = 11

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by dadx4, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-math-under-common-core-3-x-4-151805230.html


    In a pretty amazing YouTube video, Amanda August, a curriculum coordinator in a suburb of Chicago called Grayslake, explains that getting the right answer in math just doesn’t matter as long as kids can explain the necessarily faulty reasoning they used to get to that wrong answer.
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  2. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Teaching stupidity on purpose is just unfreaking-real.

    Do these teachers think they're teaching advanced psychology in math class?

    And simple math is not even close to quantum mechanics.
  3. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    If accurate, would this particularly surprise anyone? There has been a trend toward giving partial or even equal credit in school for showing your process as for actually being right; this would just be the logical conclusion.

    Reminds me of my very favorite quote from "House", in the only episode in which we see the title character lecture to students and he finds them dithering over the unfairness that they are being presented patient lives/patient dies scenarios --

    "I’m sure that this goes against everything you've been taught, but right and wrong do exist. Just because you don‘t know what the right answer is, maybe there‘s even no way you could know what the right answer is, doesn't make your answer right or even okay. It’s much simpler than that. It’s just plain wrong."
  4. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    I guess by teaching this nonsense... they teach kids to get away with rationalizing anything... anything that kids want to rationalize.
  5. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    No wonder our education is becoming one of the worst in the world.
  6. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    This is as bad as teaching our kids that it's okay to stay at home later in life, even when you can work... and get free money from the government to support their lazy a$$.

    What else are these Commies trying to brainwash the kids to do and think?
  7. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Clearly minds have already been made up about this, but I happen to think that this approach has the potential to be far superior to what we might call the traditional one.

    This is the most important part of the article for me. The emphasis is on reasoning and procedure, rather than memorization. I recall in grade school that we ended up simply memorizing all of our early math. I know to this day that 8*8 = 64 because I memorized it. But true reasoning requires that I am able to generate this type of solution de novo from novel inputs. This is where many students begin to stumble in advanced math, when they can no longer memorize the answers.
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  8. dynogator
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    dynogator Well-Known Member

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    Calling it "Obama math," is just more partisan dishonesty. Obama has recommended that a set of standards be adopted, but the "Common Core," was neither created, nor mandated by him.

    "In 2009, the National Governors Association (NGA) hired contractors to write new curriculum standards in math and language arts. The Council of Chief State School Officers — a group representing state superintendents of school — also got involved, and the two groups have actually copyrighted the standards, releasing them in June 2010."
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  9. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    Let's say you are right for a moment, are you still going to give credit for arriving at an incorrect answer even if your procedure is correct?

    So my mechanic follows proper procedure but my car still will not run-pay up dude or at least give me partial payment.

    I find hair in my food at the local restraint but the employees all wear hairnets (proper procedure) pay up.

    This does not translate to the real world.
  10. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Let's use another analogy: You have a fever. Physician #1 says it is a cold, because his wife had a fever last week, and it turned out to be a cold. Physician #2 says that it might be the flu based on your soreness and runs some diagnostic tests on you. From that data, he concludes that it was the cold. Which physician would you prefer in the real world?

    But you are right that there is a difference between your real world and my academic world, one that I wish my students better understood. The point of an education is to learn, not to be correct. The point is to become the best at whatever you are trying to do. Personally, I give partial credit for students that present the right answers with faulty reasoning and partial credit for students who present a wrong answer with appropriate reasoning. But I think you can guess which one I believe is more likely to answer a second question correctly.
  11. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    I understand your point. How many times have you seen someone do well on a multiple choice test because they guessed really well? So that I get, I also get your grading system. That said, at some point the student has to be rewarded for being right and not rewarded for being almost right even if their process was correct. Where in your academic world do you think this should take place?
  12. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I certainly have a sense for the person being right as well, but I don't find these two options are unrelated. My students get the most points by (1) being right and (2) knowing why they are right, so I think this reward already exists. In my world, it is about maximizing the probability that the person will be correct in the future, and I think that quality reasoning is the best predictor of such. So I want them to be right, and sophisticated reasoning is the way that they are going to get there most often.
  13. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    Not being critical of your grading but in the real world being almost right is still being totally wrong.
  14. HallGator
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    If things haven't changed the kind of questions students hated the most were essay type questions where giving a correct answer only got you a few points. How you derived the answer can be as important or more so. Same way when a math teacher made you show your work.
  15. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    I suspect your a good teacher.
  16. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    In a yes or no scenario, you are right, but in a much more common scenario of a question of degree, there are shades of accuracy. Issac Asimov puts it nicely:

    "When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

    But again, my point is all about accuracy (and transformation of course). It is my contention that those who learn the most sophisticated reasoning skills will be those who are most accurate.
  17. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    So you have a job and your boss has given you a deadline for a project that could be worth millions to the company and a nice promotion for you. You have a month to get your project to be completed. After the month is up and your boss comes to you at the meeting with the client and says "you ready to knock their socks off" you say "oh yes" and then at the meeting you give the client your analysis of the project and it's wrong but you go on to tell them how you worked on it for a month and the logic as to why you came up with the wrong answer. The client gets up and leaves and you lose the deal because the competing firm has the right answer for the project so they get the millions and the person in charge of that project gets the big promotion.

    See in the real world this type of teaching is complete BS.
  18. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    If this was to me, I appreciate the words. I put a lot of energy toward it, and I definitely try to emphasize critical thinking, which I think is very important (and somewhat lacking in college science).

    If this was to Hall, damn you Hall for your concisely informative posts, expertly distilling my rambling thoughts into a few sentences. :)
  19. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    This type of teaching has existed for a long time so l'm not sure why everyone seems to think this is some new age method. If you are going to be in a career that requires problem solving skills then you better be able to use sophisticated reasoning. I don't usually agree with your political views but I agree with your teaching methods.
  20. GatorRade
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    I think this example is fatally over-simplified. You recognize good critical thinking skills, and suddenly the person doesn't complete any project when they were told to? Did this class also never have deadlines on assignments? Let me try:

    So you have a job and your boss has given you a deadline for a project that could be worth millions to the company and a nice promotion for you. You have a month to get your project to be completed. After the month is up and your boss comes to you at the meeting with the client and says "you ready to knock their socks off" you say "Wait, this was about socks?" and then at the meeting you give the client a shot with a hairdryer trying to blow their socks off because you thought that was the right answer, and no one ever rewarded your critical thinking. The client gets up and leaves and you lose the deal because the competing firm has the right answer for the project so they get the millions and the person in charge of that project gets the big promotion.

    See, the right/wrong type of teaching is total BS too. Education is about learning - learning can and should include that wrong actions have consequences, but it better damn well emphasize thinking as well.

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