Winston Rape Victim Hires Title IX Lawyers

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by iwannaperfectseason, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. MyakkaGator
    Offline

    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,518
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Myakka City, FL.
    Ratings Received:
    +2,984
    It also makes meggs lose all credibility. He'll never work again if there's any conviction.
  2. GatorBen
    Online

    GatorBen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    7,163
    Likes Received:
    619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,439
    Eh, it's not a criminal case so there can't be a conviction. And there could be a finding that the school failed to comply with Title IX obligations without necessarily demonstrating that there was enough evidence to bring charges with a reasonable expectation of conviction.

    Lastly, he's an old man - I don't think job prospects after leaving the SAO is a terribly big concern for him.
  3. chunks1
    Offline

    chunks1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,275
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,271
    Especially with the big pay day he just had !
  4. born2beagator
    Offline

    born2beagator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    18,654
    Likes Received:
    316
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Lakeland
    Ratings Received:
    +1,394
    You know there are ways to predict how well a player will do before he is named starter right? It was pretty well known that Winston was a major talent coming into FSU. FSU went all in to protect the future of their football program. Not just an unnamed starter...and when this finally hits the fan its going to get really ugly for FSU
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  5. coleg
    Offline

    coleg Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +262
    You make my point for me. Meggs never covered up anything in the past. even for a known All-American and likely at the time Heisman winner ( Warrick). Meggs is 70 and not running again. Why would he suddenly then take the risk ? I can't see what the TPD or the Det. had to gain in Dec. before JW has even been named a starter. And I'll be very surprised when FSU is forced to pay a penny for an ALLEGED crime due to Title IX for an incident that was claimed occurred entirely off campus.
  6. buddhistgator
    Offline

    buddhistgator Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +252
    I don't quite understand this. It's painting the civil and Title IX routes as an either / or proposition. Is there any reason to believe that they are not going to pursue the civil actions against Winston and TPD as indicated earlier while also going after FSU?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. gatorr4life
    Offline

    gatorr4life Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    24,136
    Likes Received:
    724
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,590
    image.jpg
    • Funny Funny x 3
  8. MyakkaGator
    Offline

    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,518
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Myakka City, FL.
    Ratings Received:
    +2,984
    I stand corrected as far as criminal case goes. As far as meggs goes, he might be old but his legacy is at stake.
  9. g8orbill
    Offline

    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    73,575
    Likes Received:
    5,280
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Clermont, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +11,397
    guys like winnie rarely change their tunes- he will do this or something close to this again
  10. 92gator
    Online

    92gator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    6,529
    Likes Received:
    458
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,611
    Good point. You are correct; they are not mutually exclusive. Didn't meant to imply that they were; rather I simply assumed that since they had made no recent indications concerning a civil action, that they were electing to pursue one route instead of the other.

    Sorry for any confusion.
  11. abu5217
    Offline

    abu5217 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings Received:
    +8
    A few things to consider from an admittedly different viewpoint:

    • Regarding FSU's participation in a Title IX "cover-up" or some such: Per the FSU regulations, a Title IX investigation is opened when a student files a Title IX complaint. This happens whether the incident occurred on or off campus (the caveat being that an off-campus incident must occur between two students). I do not know, nor does anyone here, whether or not the alleged victim in this case has actually filed such a complaint. If she hasn't, then I don't know that there is a Title IX angle here at all.
    • I think one person mentioned this, but Meggs is retiring after this term is up (he had stated this prior to this becoming a public case) so whatever he did or did not do was not informed by his ambitions to win another term.
    • TPD never "tipped off" Winston. They attempted to interview him once the alleged victim identified him. Since they did not arrest him, he declined to come in on his own, and instead hired an attorney. The attorney then told TPD that his client declined to answer any questions, which, by the way, is entirely his right, innocent or guilty.
    • Some folks here like to repeatedly point out the ties that Angulo, Meggs, and Cappleman have to FSU while conveniently remaining quiet about the ties that Carroll has to UF (graduated UF Law). If you are going to mention the former, you should probably mention the latter as well, in the interests of full disclosure.
    • For a group so inclined to believe in a vast conspiracy theory, I am surprised that so few of you point out the timing of milestone events in this case (on both sides). Why did the alleged victim's family essentially disappear between April and November of 2013? I have two daughters, and if I honestly believed that one had been raped, I would be making calls/visits to the police on a regular basis. I sure as hell would not have waited until the alleged rapist was a sports hero before going to the press. In fact, if I had once worked for the State Attorney's office (as Carroll has) I would have been hounding any and all contacts I had to make sure that the case was being properly investigated. Why didn't this happen?
    • Who leaked the story to the Tampa Bay Times and TMZ? FSU/Winston/TPD obviously did not, and Carroll claims that her side did not. Someone is lying, and only one side gets any benefit from the story going public.
    • Why didn't this story leak until FSU moved to #2 in the country? How did the alleged victim know to leave Tallahassee when she did (just before the story broke, since she was in classes in the fall of 2013)? Why did it just happen that the press conference to announce no charges would be filed happen on the Eve of the ACCCG? Why did Carroll wait until the eve of the Heisman Trophy presentation to hold her own press conference after no charges were filed? Why did Carroll then wait until the day after the National Championship game to go on TV to announce a civil suit? Why has said suit not been filed yet?
    • A lot of people here have pointed out that only 2% of rape allegations are false. Even this number (which is actually somewhere between 2-8%, per the FBI) is nowhere near accurate due to the fact that many actual rapes are never reported. That said, when rape allegations are false, the vast majority of these are done either to hurt the alleged attacker or because the accuser needs an alibi for their own behavior. NOTE: I am not claiming that this case is a false report, just wanted to add those facts to the discussion.
    • During Carroll's press conference, she called on Florida's AG to investigate Meggs and the TPD. The AG responded that she did not have the authority to investigate Meggs, and could only investigate the TPD if a formal complaint was filed. Has one been filed? If not, why not?
    These are all valid points, even if you believe (or want to believe) that Winston is guilty here.

    Now, I admit that I attended FSU. I will also state that the behavior of some FSU "fans" in this whole situation is abhorrent. I don't claim to know what happened that night, I wasn't there. I know that we have heard two sides of a story, and, like many situations, I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. As a fan of the school, the team, and yes, Winston, I would like to believe that he truly is innocent. I readily agree that the TPD did a pretty lousy job of investigating this case, at least based on all of the information that we have seen. However, contrary to a lot of folks here, I feel that this hurts Winston, because while no charges were filed, there are admittedly some glaring gaps in the case. These gaps create doubt, and doubt means that this will hang over Winston for his entire life.

    I actually would like this civil case to happen, because while I would like to believe that Winston is innocent here, nothing that has happened to this point exonerates him completely. If he is truly innocent, then I believe that the civil case would bear that out. If he did something wrong, then he needs to be punished, even if that means removing him from the team. Yes, I said that, and I think that most FSU fans feel the same way.

    Now, another interesting thought exercise here is to wonder what some of the more, ahem, enthusiastic posters here would say or do if Winston were exonerated in a civil case. I have my ideas, but this post is long enough as it is.
  12. denny_crane
    Offline

    denny_crane Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +493
    Irrespective of any theories about what happened or didn't happen, one thing is fact. A crime was commited. Either she was raped, or she falsely reported a rape. So, why no substantial investigation? As Horatio Caine would say, "Follow the evidence." I don't think the TPD followed any evidence because they were afraid where it might lead....
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. iwannaperfectseason
    Offline

    iwannaperfectseason Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +581
    The family did not disappear. They were waiting for Angulo to finish the "investigation." He never told them that the case was closed. He did lie to them when he told them that he wouldn't contact Winston because that would alert him. He then turned around and alerted him anyway without the family's knowledge. He also sat on the victim's blood and urine specimens for almost 40 days before sending them to the lab. He refused to collect dna from Winston. He refused to interview Casher. He didn't go to Potbellys. He didn't go to the Legacy Apartments where he knew (or could have easily learned) Casher lived. He supposedly sent an e-mail (lol..) to the cab co. asking them to come forward with information about the early morning of 12-7-12. Yet, that e-mail was not part of the released documents. He did not tell the former Police Chief (His boss) about the alleged rape. He basically did not conduct even a half-ass investigation. He did no investigation whatsoever. Yet, he is still employed by the TPD. Why? He is an FSU grad, super fan, and wanted to be a Booster. He knew Winston's potential. There was no way in hell he was going to arrest Winston no matter what he did.

    Bondi did not investigate the investigators because she said she needed Gov. Scott's approval. Since Gov. Scott himself, is a proud member of the Plead-the-5th Club, he looked the other way. (Just like he supposedly did when his former HMO defrauded Medicare of millions of dollars.)

    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. UFLAW81
    Offline

    UFLAW81 All Glory to Zarathustra VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4,186
    Likes Received:
    918
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Trampa
    Ratings Received:
    +3,729
    First, you fail to mention the rape was reported to FSUPD, which is enough to trigger an investigation under the Clery Act. Combined with Title IX, there will be an investigation of FSU by the Justice Department and The DOE.
    Then the question becomes, did the Athletic /department, perhaps with the TPD, act in concert to cover up the allegations. If so, it makes no difference whether Winston is guilty or not. Then, to complicate matters, the question will be is this an isolated matter? If not, then removing the scab will open a very deep wound.

    Yes, it was Winstons right to take the fifth. It was also Charles Mansons right. Read Vincent Bugliosi's book on the challenge of proving Manson guilty when no one was talking. Or read Rudy Giuliani's book on how he was able to use Rico to bust through the code of omerta to bring down the New York mob.

    Furthermore, taking the fifth in a civil action raises a presumption of culpability.

    There is so much more I could say but the bottom line is this; College football is corrupt and this story is but another symptom of its corruption. There is no reason an athlete as talented as Winston should be prohibited from playing pro ball next year. Not any more than VHIII should be prohibited from entering the draft, if he so chose. But, the corruption is much deeper than this.

    Reform college football. Let the players be represented. Make NCAA rules uniform or get rid of the NCAA. Get rid of redshirting. On and on I could go.

    As fans, supporters and boosters we all end up victims of the college athlete exploitation circus.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. horanic
    Offline

    horanic Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +569
    The only question I would have of the victim is why, if she could identify Chris from the football team, could she not immediately look at the team picture and call the police and say I see the person who did it. It should have not been hard for her to track his fat arse down if she wanted to...just like it wasn't hard for the TPD to track him down.

    That being said, no question the TPD, Jimbo, Angulo and Meggs all are dirty in this one. I'm sure Willie's nest egg for public service is minimal but his nest egg for public disservice will be a lot sweeter. At 70 the booster money is essentially his last shot at income. He sold his soul....or what was left of it. I bet he has a nice big house on the beach very soon.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. tideroller
    Offline

    tideroller Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings Received:
    +14
    Well, If yo' gonna getcha hopes up din, get'em up big din.


    The same can be said for all you "FSU is going to burn" crowd. Facing Penn State type sanctions? Are you kidding? What planet do y'all live on? The NCAA is doing everything it can to lessen the hammer on PSU after the outcry about them overstepping their bounds. And this was a PAID employee of the PSUAD raping a child ON-CAMPUS and then covered up. And the NCAA is still trying to back away.

    Here you have a he said/she said incident where no charges were filed (much less a conviction) that the investigation was handled by an agency with no connection to the university. Yet the NCAA is going to drop an atomic sanctions bomb on the Seminoles? Wow...
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1
  17. iwannaperfectseason
    Offline

    iwannaperfectseason Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +581
    Penn State vacated 111 wins including 6 bowl wins. Do you seriously think that they will give them those victories back?

    The investigation was not handled by an agency with no connection to the university. On the contrary, Meggs, Cappleman, and Angulo most certainly did have connections to FSU. They're all FSU grads. They all had conflicts of interest. Meggs could have acted impartially by presenting the evidence to a grand jury and letting them decide. Instead, his loyalty to the ketchup and mustard was stronger.

  18. mfpardnor2
    Offline

    mfpardnor2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    8,387
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Jensen Beach, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +2,457
    I'd like to know when Nancy Grace is coming to town?
  19. tideroller
    Offline

    tideroller Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings Received:
    +14
    Penn State vacated 111 wins including 6 bowl wins. Do you seriously think that they will give them those victories back?

    The investigation was not handled by an agency with no connection to the university. On the contrary, Meggs, Cappleman, and Angulo most certainly did have connections to FSU. They're all FSU grads. They all had conflicts of interest. Meggs could have acted impartially by presenting the evidence to a grand jury and letting them decide. Instead, his loyalty to the ketchup and mustard was stronger.



    Whoosh!!! That was the sound of the point rushing past your head. I was referring to people on here certain that the NCAA is going to lower the banhammer on FSU once everything is revealed in this case. Meggs graduated from FSU way back when most of the posters on this board probably weren't even born yet. I don't think that establishes a nexus to the FSU AD by the NCAA unless you are the most hare-brained tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. There is no way on God's green earth that the NCAA takes any enforcement action on FSU for this incident.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  20. mfpardnor2
    Offline

    mfpardnor2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    8,387
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Jensen Beach, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +2,457
    The NCAA will be so upset with FSU that Cleveland State will lose 5 scholarships.

Share This Page