"Why I'm a creationist"

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by tim85, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    I dont really think it's all that paradoxical to want the world to make sense to us. Also, i don't know that i believe most people think that most people around them are irrational.
  2. bposs
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    bposs Well-Known Member

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    Amen brother.

    You science geeks (and believers as well) should read a book by Hugh Ross called Why the Universe is the Way it is. It deals with the "why" questions people have regarding God and our universe.
  3. cocodrilo
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    cocodrilo Well-Known Member

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    Also recommended is On the Origin of Species, which presents natural selection with such profoundly simple logic that it prompted the esteemed naturalist Thomas Huxley to say, "How stupid that I didn't think of that."
  4. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Wanting the world to make sense is totally rational. Believing that the only things that are true in the world are those that make sense is much less so.

    I don't think people use the term in their mind, but I believe that they are effectively believing this. Your best rationality tells you not to believe in anthropogenic anthropogenic climate change, right Tim? Therefore, you effectively believe that those that do believe in ACC are irrational, because if you didn't believe that you yourself were rational, you wouldn't have the belief to begin with. (That is not to say that you call them idiots or even view them overtly as idiots in your mind). This paper nicely describes this point.
  5. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    To paraphrase - "Given enough time anything can happen."

    -The science of evolution-
    :geek:
  6. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    To paraphrase the other side of your sarcastic coin: "Something that is only a one in a hundred chance can never occur, no many how many thousands of chances you give it."

    -The science of evolution denial-
  7. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    What do you think that 'image' is? The Hebrew word for God - Elohim - is comprised of Eloah, a term for God with a feminine ending coupled with im, the masculine plural. That is fact.

    "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."

    In the image of God He created them, male and female He created them.
  8. AustinGator1
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    AustinGator1 Premium Member

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    We covered this in the other thread. I looked at your links and informed you you were taking second and third definitions of words to get to a conclusion you desire.
  9. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't think they're irrational. I think they're misguided and wrong, but not irrational. As far as the writer's words about what makes sense to her -- I think it may just be poorly worded - I'm sure that if she's a creationist, as most creationists will attest to, there are many things in this world that don't make sense, and that's why faith is such a big part of life.
  10. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/is-god-male-or-female-does-the-bible-say/

    Why does Jack Wellman (and you I suppose as you posted this page he wrote) think it is "an insult to God" to say God has a feminine aspect as words from the very first chapter of Genesis indicate God has both a male and a female aspect?
  11. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    So . . . was God talking to His Son, or to his wife ?

    Or is He transgendered in a really remarkable way ?
  12. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. How do you become "wrong"? By being irrational. You don't use the term irrational, but "wrong" implies irrational, as you and these people both have access to the same information from which to make conclusions.

    Agreed, and this is why this "evolution requires faith" is such a strange argument.
  13. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't God make man in his image, starting with Adam, and only later decided to create Eve?
  14. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong implies believing something is fact that isn't, not that they're irrational. For example, the people who believed the world was flat weren't irrational -- it was pretty rational to believe that, it wasn't crazy, they were just factually inaccurate.
  15. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall you doing that other than with the Hebrew word for 'side.' Do you want to bring it up for discussion on this thread? You assume I am "attempting to reach a conclusion desire." I would say your assumption is incorrect. I have no desire for any preconceived conclusion. I want to know the intent of the original written in Hebrew.
  16. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    To God's complete Self, perhaps in the same way you or I would talk to our self.
  17. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Many - or even most - scholars, translators and Jewish sages agree the verse indicates God created mankind as the Hebrew word means that as well as later indicating the single man Adam. Sages from ancient times also accept the passage as meaning the original first representative of mankind - Adam - was an anthropomorphic individual with both a female aspect (side) as well as a male aspect (side).
  18. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    I don't talk to myself as us.
  19. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    It was only rational to believe that the world was flat if that is where the evidence pointed. If someone today believes that the world is flat, they are irrational. However, if both parties have access to the same information and still disagree, they are implicitly stating that the other party is irrational. I can't go back and tell someone from the year 1000 about our evidence of today, but both sides of the climate change argument do have access to each other's rationale. If you reject the other rationale, and believe that you are rational, the other one must be irrational. You should check out the Robin Hanson article that I linked for you. It works through the issue very nicely.

    Regardless, my argument would still work even if you don't accept this tenet of implicit irrationality. Once you grant that so many humans can be "wrong", how can you be so sure that you, also a human, are "right"?
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  20. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Look up autocatalysis.

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