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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by CHFG8R, Mar 12, 2014.
It wouldn't be ridiculous if that person were you or someone you loved who was wrongly convicted.
No, but when someone needs to die for their heinous crimes we have a law that allows for the death penalty to be carried out.
Again, note that THE GUY CONFESSED. No doubt there. So, again, why get rid of it completely?
those opposing the penalty..PLEASE PAY my tax's Assessed for housing THE scummm...mucho THANKS
the cost of death penalty
Time for you to start paying some extra on your tax bill to support your own stance.
False confessions particularly by those of diminished mental capacity to a skillful interrogator after hours of interrogation are not uncommon. The case of the West Memphis 3 comes to mind. One of the suspects who was of low intelligence had a confession coerced from him that did not particularly fit the facts of the case but good enough to convict them all and for one of them to get the death sentence. Eventually, after a couple of decades in prison, there was enough new information brought to light and they were all released through a weird loophole of the law. Google Paradise Lost or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three
False confessions are not unheard of and likely happen much more than many suspect. But even beyond that, the point is that having it on the books exposes innocent people to be executed for crimes that they did not commit and once executed we cannot unring that bell. See Cameron Todd Willingham, as just the latest example.
Yep, false confession-guy confessed several times, gave details only he knew, kept a journal, wrote a book & composed songs about it....but hey let's keep him alive on the off chance he was making everything, including his fingerprints & other evidence up.
As for the cost, drawing out the years on death row on those who have confessed is the expense. Single bullet is a lot cheaper.
Yes, for those who maintain their innocence, the appeals are there. Even for single murders I'd be willing to say life w/o parole. But the argument of "oh, they're mentally ill" -NO KIDDING! It takes a special kind of crazy to do what Rolling & others did. But yeah, so much better to keep them alive to torture the victims' families with their books, songs, interviews, art, etc. (Sarcasm)
There are some crimes where death is the only viable punishment. Unfortunately, we can't give them the death they deserve.
Never could reconcile the left being against executing a murderer but ok with the death of an innocent child in the womb.
Yes, seriously. I don't believe confessions should be the linchpin of whether capital punishment is a viable form of punishment. The problems with it run too large and many which prevent us from ever being able to guarantee we got it right every time and we cannot undo the damage if we execute an innocent person or someone whose trial was so screwed up it perverted any sense of integrity about the system. And it's not only about getting it right, as key as it is, the distribution of the death penalty (as Justice Blackmun made clear) is and has always been arbitrary and capricious, thereby calling into question whether it could ever be distributed in a fair and just manner.
As for the costs, see here. It's not just housing them for years, it's the cost of trial process which comprises a large chunk of the figures. You say a single bullet is a lot cheaper, but what would you think would happen if we handled capital cases as we would other cases, say by stripping away all those appeals, not having death penalty qualified lawyers, expert witnesses, etc...? We might save money, but the evidence strongly suggests there would be many more errors, thus making it more likely we'd execute innocent people.
Don't you know, everybody on death row has been falsely accused and barred access from any legal appeals process?
Murder is a personal thing. I can't think of something any more personal. It is revenge. Revenge for those killed wantonly and for generally no reason. Sometimes mad dogs have got to be put down.
It is also a deterrent. It deters civilized people to even think about murder as an option to anything.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I have a problem allowing people who rape, terrorize, torture, murder & dismember people, then admit to it and brag about it to continue to live long healthy lives tormenting the victims' families. For those of you who have no problem with that....well, guess you have your point of view.
I suppose so, queen. But I hope that your having a problem with people who rape and kill etc... isn't to infer that I or anyone else against capital punishment don't have a problem with people raping and killing?
Fact is that there is a growing number of people who believe that the death penalty might be deserved for some folks but still do not support having capital punishment as an option, for deeply considered and moral reasons. It is based in the knowledge that achieving "justice" which is fair isn't so simple as exacting a pound of flesh and all is miraculously right in the world, but rather that it is complicated by the harm from an inconsistent distribution of punishment, the undermining of legitimacy of the system when society gets it wrong, and the costs in meting out such punishment.
That's simply not the case.
Are you familiar with the additional constitutional safeguards put in place for defendants in capital cases? The actual cost of incarceration are not why these cases are much more expensive.
144 people that have been sentenced to death, but were later exonerated, pardoned, or acquitted at a subsequent trial.
Avg time from first sentence to subsequent release: 10.1 years, suggesting that rectifying wrongs in the justice system can come at a glacial pace, if ever...
Many of those exonerated by DNA and released off of death row, had confessed - falsely - to the homicide, or . . . were said by the police to have confessed to the homicide..
So based on all these "false imprisonment" allegations and possibilities, under your argument, because one person might be wrongfully convicted, let's go ahead and get rid of the entire penal system, because if someone's wrongfully convicted they could suffer a stroke, fatal heart attack, be beaten with a fatal injury, etc. Because if only one innocent person dies as a result of a conviction that's too many. Whether it's the death penalty or just something that happens in jail, right?
Are there bad cops/lawyers out there that muck things up? Yes. In all aspects of life. If nothing else, that there are more and more people being exonerated via technology/DNA is a GOOD sign that those receiving the ultimate penalty are not being wrongfully convicted.
To take us to Rolling's case, again, the guy wrote about it, composed songs, had a JOURNAL describing everything, there was DNA and other evidence, and he confessed several times.
But again, I'm not going to convince folks that think it's okay to allow a guy like Rolling to walk around. For those of us who went through that week of terror (and we weren't even relatives), we know he got off easy by dying quickly. But at least he's not around still taunting the families of victims, or profiting off his books/art work.
There was a death penalty case that just concluded here in Upstate SC.
There is no doubt about his guilt or innocence. He did it- shot an 8 year old girl 4 times to get back at his ex-wife's new boyfriend. (The girl's father.)
All that said- I'm still ambivalent about the DP. The guy had no priors if I remember correctly. Had a job, etc.
According to his attorney, he lived a good life before cracking and doing this horrible thing.
And obviously the prosecutor played on the emotions of the jury- but how can you not get emotional about the death of an 8 year old?
The DP is so distasteful- I have so many problems with it.
But I can't think of another appropriate punishment for a man that would kill an 8 year old girl, or a Danny Rolling, or Tim McVeigh.
Death may be "appropriate" for select crimes and criminals, but that is in of itself quite arbitrary and subjective. I just don't think that's a standard that can reasonably be applied by humanity in a consistent manner.