Why I oppose the death penalty

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by CHFG8R, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. CHFG8R
    Online

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +991
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,032
    Likes Received:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +805
    Add to that the decidedly creepy notion of "crime against the state."
  3. oragator1
    Online

    oragator1 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    12,120
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,047
    It's cheaper to keep them in jail, innocent people don't die and it's been shown not to be a deterrent. Only reason to keep it is vengeance really.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. wgbgator
    Online

    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,129
    Likes Received:
    356
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,321
    Ok. You've often stated your preference for monarchy - "crime against the king/queen" seems no less creepy, especially when the king was nowhere around the actual crime.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. exiledgator
    Online

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +1,877
    I think he'd prefer "crimes against the Philosopher King." Dream ?
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. wgbgator
    Online

    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,129
    Likes Received:
    356
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,321
    What I wonder is if people and organizations would work as hard and as long to prove a wrongful conviction for someone sentenced to life. I'd like to think yes, but would the private funding and urgency be the same?
    • Like Like x 3
  7. CHFG8R
    Online

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +991
    Very interesting point. Talk about irony.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. exiledgator
    Online

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +1,877
    Hadn't considered this.

    This thought now makes me wonder if the bar of reasonable doubt couldn't in some way be lowered in a case that was once a capital crime, but is no longer.

    It could end up ~98% accuracy of guilt but no execution vs. 99.5% accuracy w/ execution. Or something like that.
  9. wgbgator
    Online

    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,129
    Likes Received:
    356
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,321
    Yeah, that old cliche of unintended consequences. I'd still get rid of the death penalty though.

    I read a fairly persuasive argument that the Warren-era reforms (Miranda, Gideon, etc) moved the doubt toward the accused and away from the police, who pre-Miranda et al, many juries thought were pretty amatuerish and more error prone, which also culminated in the rise of "tough on crime" (and war on drugs) pols and laws. I wasnt really persuaded that rights like Miranda werent worth the supposed backlash though. Its an interesting "what if" though.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  10. asuragator
    Offline

    asuragator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    20,154
    Likes Received:
    4,059
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +5,922
    The urgency would likely not be the same, but organizations like The Innocence Project have done a bang up job in getting many people out who've been wrongly convicted which weren't death penalty cases.

    The problem is with appeals and wrongful convictions, imo. The law and norms governing the appeals process actually makes it really hard to get them overturned in the first place. This includes death penalty cases despite the fact that there are more appeals that can be used compared non-death penalty cases.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. fastsix
    Offline

    fastsix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,125
    Likes Received:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Seattle
    Ratings Received:
    +908
    If it really is a worse punishment, then wouldn't you support the death penalty because you wouldn't want to subject an innocent person to that worse punishment? I'm sure prison can be worse than death, but it depends on the person's temperament and the conditions of the prison. If some 40 year old guy who has been in and out of prison his entire life kills your wife during a robbery, putting him back in prison doesn't seem like much of a punishment.
  12. wgbgator
    Online

    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    22,129
    Likes Received:
    356
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,321
    Yeah, it seems like its a debacle getting a conviction overturned even after all witnesses have recanted testimony where there was no other evidence. The famous ritual child abuse case comes to mind, where everyone agreed that it was all made up, but they stayed in prison for years and years while the wheels turned.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. cjgator76
    Offline

    cjgator76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    17,025
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +293
    Those are my major reasons too. Another is that the death penalty is by and large a poor person's sentence.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. exiledgator
    Online

    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings Received:
    +1,877
    To get to the root of this, one first needs to determine the foremost reason we should imprison. To safeguard our population or to punish wrongdoers?
    • Like Like x 1
  15. CHFG8R
    Online

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +991
    I get your point (and thought that I might see such a reply) and I agree. Me personally, I'd take a quick death to life in prison provided I knew I was guilty. However, if innocent, I can't say that I wouldn't hold out hope and, thus, want to live. Still, I can't think of anything more un-American than the government taking the life of an innocent person and if there is no 100% guarantee of their guilt, I think death should be off the table.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. MichiGator2002
    Online

    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    15,507
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,666
    I'm against capital punishment, but it's obviously not unconstitutional, not when the text of the 5th Amendment sets out indictment requirements for "capital, or otherwise infamous" crimes. If the language of the document is conceding that capital cases can be lawfully conducted with an indictment, it is logically precluded that the document forbids capital punishment.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. tegator80
    Online

    tegator80 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Ratings Received:
    +1,777
    Even though it plays into the "Big Brother Government" thought process and that bothers me, I always thought that states should have the right to enact laws and prosecute offenders but that the penal system should be run on a national level. It smacks too much of the old fox tending to the henhouse mentality. And if the penalty in that state is death then an immediate verification of those aspects that warrant such a penalty should be made. And it should be treated like abortions: state sanctioned but rare and used only in the most extreme cases.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. CHFG8R
    Online

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,852
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +991
    I'm speaking of the general tenor of the document, specifically it's attention to personal civil liberties. Sorry if I was not clear about that. I did not intend to imply that it was unconstitutional.
  19. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,032
    Likes Received:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +805
    Don't misunderstand me. I'm not pining for monarchy. I'm just saying it would be freer.
  20. Gatorrick22
    Offline

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    32,555
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +4,274
    Good... then you must certainly be against abortion.

Share This Page