Why does Mary Wise get a free pass?

Discussion in 'Women of the Swamp' started by ArtVandelay, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. ArtVandelay
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    ArtVandelay Well-Known Member

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    I know she has a ridiculous record, but at some point don't you have to win it all?

    No excuse losing to FSU at home early in the tourney. I am sure FSU has a good team, but that is pretty bad.

    Not saying you need to fire her, but I would think she should get some heat for constant underachieving.
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  2. your_perfect_enemy
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    your_perfect_enemy Well-Known Member

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    Well there may be no game I care about this weekend but at least I finally got a chance to use the new "dumb" feature
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  3. eastowest
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    eastowest Well-Known Member

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    Rape cases, Soccer,and now Volleyball.........I thought this was a football board.....:rolleyes:
  4. GatorSean
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    GatorSean Well-Known Member

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    She needs to win it all to be considered one of the greatest college coaches of all time. She does not need to win it all to avoid 'heat for underachieving' which is a ridiculous statement for someone who has literally won over 90% of her games and I can't even count how many championships and final fours.
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  5. eastowest
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    eastowest Well-Known Member

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    Kinda like.......Mike Martin?
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  6. jgator79
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    Because not many give a rats behind about womens volleyball.
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  7. Spurffelbow833
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    Spurffelbow833 Well-Known Member

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    She has the greatest winning percentage of any coach in any sport in Division I with over 10 years of work. The only thing she hasn't done is win a national championship. I think she's earned the right to spend the rest of her career trying as long as she keeps her team in the hunt.
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  8. SeaBud
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    SeaBud Active Member

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    I hope the op is a joke, but in case it is not, how about:
    - Before she got to UF, we had never won an SEC championship in women's volleyball,
    - 20 SEC titles in 22 years,
    - One of only 2 coaches in conference history to win 19 titles,
    - She has only had 1 top recruiting class (2008 with Kelly Murphy),
    - 6 trips to the final four.

    Now, is it fair to say that she and all Gator volleyball fans REALLY want a National Title? Yes! Is it fair to say she should "catch heat" or has "constant(ly) underachieved"? Absolutely Not.

    I suspect this post may be more directed toward Gator impatience with the current football coach? If so, I confidently submit that if the gators had won the SEC the last 3 years in football, few if anybody would even be concerned about the coaches. Further, I do think there is also a level of difference in the scrutiny a football coach receives and what a "minor" sport coach receives. This is natural due to fan interest and revenue generation requirements. If there was a serious point to your post criticizing Coach Wise, I agree said difference exists, but the point is clumsily made. If that has nothing to do with your post, I apologize for the tangent.
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  9. ArtVandelay
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    ArtVandelay Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, for a second I thought we played these sports to win National Championships. I didn't really that wasn't our goal. I wasn't saying that she should be fired. I simply said that it's annoying to be as good as they are every year (certainly a credit to Coach Wise) but never win it all. We would make fun of any other program that did the same (if it was in a sport that people cared about) Many people on here complain about much dumber things.

    Also, sorry to clog up the football board with this thread and have you g0 to the 2nd page to read the 40 Urban Meyer/Muschamp/OC threads that are sooo exhilarating...

    "20 SEC titles in 22 years" This only helps to make my point. I probably did word it poorly. I didn't mean underachievement in terms of regular season. I meant in the post-season. Certainly its great to be up there every year and I don't expect a National Championship every year. I guess I am the only one wondering why we never have won one. It's not like we are a lower tier school dominating with no chance to win it all. I know Penn State and Stanford have had some really great teams lately, but so have we.

    At the end of the day, I don't lose any sleep over this. Just thought it was an interesting topic.
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  10. SeaBud
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    SeaBud Active Member

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    Now that we are on the correct forum, good topic. First, I do not think we play all sports to win championships. Honestly, we play football to pay the bills and if we could pay the bills better by NOT winning championships, I have no doubt that is what we would do. We do field "minor sport" teams and support them pretty well, but we do not give everything we have to win championships in every sport - we do not pay top dollar to get the best coaches or have the best facilities. To put it bluntly, I think in some sports if we are "good enough," that is good enough because UF simply does not care as much about those sports.

    Also, we have won "championships" with Coach Wise, just not a nattie. I do agree that 6 final fours with no Nattie seems statistically aberrant or indicative of coaching issues. Note, however, that we have only had 1 top recruiting class so perhaps Coach Wise has overachieved with the talent she can recruit (or is not a great recruiter).

    Finally, I think it is in part due to our conference being bad (kind of the inverse of football where the SEC pushes us to excellence). I think that most SEC teams half ass women's volleyball and we win championships getting away with bad habits. The west coast and big 10 may be better on average and so those teams are more battle tested come tournament time.

    Ultimately, Coach Wise is a HOF coach whether she wins a nattie or not -however, I agree there will be a small asterisks on her career if she does not. But, underachiever or hot seat? Again, no.
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  11. red4512
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    red4512 Premium Member

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    We all knew someone would make this post. Because it was FSUcks makes it worse. And maybe that 6'5" recruit will help next year. But hate to waste the talents of a 6'2' AllAmerican senior because they played like s@@t last night. Getting an NC in ANY sport takes a lot of talent, coaching and even more luck. And its so much harder in in any sport with 64 team playoff(UNLIKE FOOTBALL).
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  12. G2MGA
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    G2MGA Active Member

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    Disagree that it's a dumb question even though I am more bullish on the future of the vball program under Wise than many here [the incoming recruiting class is really, really good]. The answer is very simple: **Because she is a woman**

    Of course Foley could fire Butler, Burleigh and Wise, but do you really think he intends to run an AD where the only female coach is Rhonda Faehn (Gymnastics)? I mean, maybe Dave Hart would do that...

    Burleigh and Wise are both female NCAA coaching legends - the only female coach to win a soccer NC and the only female to coach in the volleyball title match. There are very, very few female coaches of top 25/50 teams in these sports (though it should be noted UCLA 1st year coach Amanda Cromwell prev. of UCF is coaching for the NC against FSU tomorrow).

    Because of that Burleigh and Wise are going to ride off into the sunset whenever they darn well choose. Considering that the SEC sucks in both these sports, any NCAA title is probably going to require a little luck, but being in the final 4/8 regularly should be achievable.

    Even without coaching changes, I would definitely like to see these programs try some new things (e.g. schedule some tough late season non-conference matches [we used to do this every year in VB], hire a team sports psychologist, something I don't know...), maybe not NCAA tournament road games though.
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  13. GboroGator
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    GboroGator Well-Known Member

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    Not even sniffing the Final 4 of late. Can't even advance out of our own building lately either.
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  14. GboroGator
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    GboroGator Well-Known Member

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    UF wouldn't have had to face Mizzou for the 3rd time either. They lost to Purdon't.
  15. ApexNC
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    Does that put their coach on the hot seat?
  16. TJtheGator
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    For years the SEC was UF and everyone else. Really a tallest midget competition. Now Texas A&M and Mizzou have brought in some serious competition. UF isn't guaranteed to own the SEC anymore. Mary's recruiting should've changed long ago. Too many 6-foot blockers and hitters. Taller, physical teams own us every time.
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  17. JAWS
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    Mary Wise is one of the best VB coaches in the country. With all her success, seriously, who are you going to replace her with?
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  18. ArtVandelay
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    ArtVandelay Well-Known Member

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    I never said anything about firing her or that she should be on the hot seat. Just said she deserves a little criticism for never winning it all. Yes, the fact that we got upset in the 2nd round and that it was FSU certainly factors into the disappointment.
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  19. ktowers55
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    ktowers55 Active Member

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    She has an outstanding class coming in with a really height, which has come to dominate women's VB.
    She certainly deserves continued support. Based on the logic expressed here UF should have canned Rhonda Fein before last year.
  20. sflagator
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    Her success at UF is basically unheard of. She took a nothing program and made them an instant success, and has basically maintain that level for 22 years. Contrary to popular belief, the fact that the SEC was so terrible for many of those years probably made it harder, not easier, for Wise to excel on the national stage. Now that our competition is consistently tough, we should do better on the national stage.

    She should have a NC by now, but IMO her failure to do so is as much a result of bad luck as anything. Nevertheless, I don't think that failure affects the fact that she will rightfully coach at UF for as long as she wants.
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