Where do the country's millionaires live? D.C. Of course.

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ncbullgator, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. dynogator
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    dynogator Well-Known Member

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    After reading the article (twice) I'm stunned at how you bent the content to further your continuing rant about public sectors pensions. The piece didn't even mention pensions. Or DC, or VA, except on a chart with all 50 states.

    I agree with you that some of the pensions in the past were bloated, but from what I've heard, specifically from my sister, a budget analyst of a local school system, they've been being reined in for years. She's retiring in 2 years after 30 years in with a generous pension, but recent hires pensions are half, or less, of what they used to be.
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  2. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    All federal government workers get a retirement package similar to a private sector 401k, plus a defined benefit of 1.7% of salary. Calling it a golden parachute is an abuse of the term on multiple levels. Only a small percentage of federal who have invested their thrift plan contributions wisely have greater than a million dollars, and these are likely higher paid employees who likely contribute(d) much more into their plans in the first place such as medical officers and lawyers.

    As for the president's retirement. Sure, if a president lives for long time after being out of office, he would eventually receive 6 million worth of compensation, but that all depends. Not to mention, a chunk of that compensation would not go to a president directly but to fund a staff member, and the president is the only government employee who receives such a perk.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
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  3. vaxcardinal
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    vaxcardinal Well-Known Member

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    I'm a federal worker…When I retire I get an annuity of 1% of my salary for each year of service. We also have a 401k that we can contribute to and the government will match up to 5%.
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  4. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    So you have a golden parachute and steal millions from the taxpayer?:D

    I kid of course. I should have written 1% as the 1.7% is for some select employees such as Congress etc...
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
  5. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    Very few people in private enterprise get a payment for life from their employer. If you are lucky enough to have a pension plan, you get a lump sum when you retire, and that's it. Make it last as long as you need it to.
  6. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    I feel for Mississippi, they're at the bottom of the ranks. And they vote for the Pub unlike the rich states that vote for more corruption and more government red-tape.
  7. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    Those millionaires living near DC almost all work in the national security sector. It's not lavish federal pensions that are to blame for their existence, it's the incredible ramp up of the MI complex by Bush/Cheney.

    Physician, heal thyself.
  8. vaxcardinal
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    vaxcardinal Well-Known Member

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    is that a fact or pure speculation?
  9. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Just a coincidence?

    Let's look at the bottom of the list:

    Mississippi, Arkansas, Idaho, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Indiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Oklahoma. 10 red states.

    At the top of the list:

    Maryland, New Jersey, Connecticut, Hawaii, Alaska, Massachusetts, Virginia, New Hampshire, Delaware, and California (DC is not a state). 9 blue states and 1 red state.

    Seems non-coincidental. Maybe "lower government red tape" isn't really the route to more wealth.

    BTW, most corrupt state? Red state Louisiana. 2nd and 3rd? The Dakotas. Followed by Kentucky, Alaska, Montana, Mississippi (seems they do vote for more corruption), Alabama, New Jersey, and Virginia. So that is 8 red states (the bottom 8 in fact) and 2 blue states.

    Least corrupt states? South Carolina, Oregon, Washington, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Utah, Nevada, Kansas, Idaho, Nebraska. 5 red and 5 blue states.

    So you really shouldn't be implying that voting for Republicans means less corruption, as that does not appear to be true.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/most-corrupt-states-and-territories-2013-9
  10. Gatorrick22
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    Cost of living and red-tape is corruption to me. State income tax, toll roads, union shutdowns.... It all sucks... any way you primp it. And who decides what is corruption? Media Matters? JOKE.
  11. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    I didn't quote media matters. You might want to look at who I actually linked. Corruption is determined by how many convictions there were for corruption per person in the state. The law determines what corruption is.

    And no, a toll road or a state income tax are not corruption. Corruption is a criminal act. Disagreeing with a policy does not make it corruption. Cost-of-living is "corruption?" That really makes no sense given the dictionary definition of the word corruption. Cost-of-living is primarily a function of market forces (high housing and product demand or limited supply of housing or products).
  12. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    "Convictions?" Then that rules that metric out the window as believable... It's not a good indicator of anything. To me corruption is theft and red-tape... Liberal states' leaders are good at getting away with crime...
  13. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Any evidence to back this supposition? Or is this just starting from a desired outcome and working back to make the data fit that predetermine desired outcome?
  14. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Is all red tape corruption? That seems to be a pretty imprecise definition, imo
  15. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    No more than "convictions" of malfeasance.
  16. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    I actually agree. We should be careful as using convictions as an indicator. Just too many reasons why some folks get convicted, others not--which may or may not be itself a result of corruption or something close to it. This is a problem with white collar crime study since white collar criminals and corporations often escape actual criminal punishment...
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
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  17. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Well then let's look at the legal framework by state. From the Center for Public Integrity:

    Best legal frameworks and disclosures by state:

    New Jersey, Connecticut, Washington, California, and Nebraska.

    Worst legal frameworks and disclosures by state:

    Georgia, South Dakota, Wyoming, Virginia, Maine, South Carolina, Michigan, and North Dakota.

    http://www.stateintegrity.org/your_state

    Here is the Fox News article on this study:

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2012/03/22/americas-most-corrupt-states/

    So again, no evidence that the crimes in blue states are just being covered up better, as it would be much harder to cover up crime given the disclosure laws in New Jersey or Washington than in Georgia or Wyoming.
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  18. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Framed in that way, I think it's a better indicator. Just keep in mind that measuring such things is really tough, regardless.
  19. mdgator05
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    No doubt. I think convictions need to be combined with some measure of disclosure and legal framework measurement. No doubt it is hard to perfectly judge white collar crime, given the skill of most white collar criminals. However, I see no real evidence that corruption is higher in blue states and see some evidence of the reverse in fact. Not terribly surprising given that many of the red states are poorer and that government corruption tends to be higher in poorer regions (obviously this is causal in both directions).
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  20. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Part of the problem too is 'reporting.' Places like Cali and NY are large states with 10s of millions of people and have very high profiles and thus will garner more national attention. Mississippi or Arakansas, North Dakota not so much.

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