What's your view on WM's emotions?

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by gator34654, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Champ's problem is he's Old Faithful. Guaranteed to go off and blow his top every game. And when you do that, it loses its effectiveness and people start to tune out. When done on occasion and with purpose, GOING BATSH!T CRAZY CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE!

    But if the entire post, and every subsequent post is bold and all uppercase, people will eventually ignore the noise and look for something they perceive has more substance.

    And whether or not it is his intentions, Champ is always doing the equivalent of posing all-caps and bold. It's how he communicates with the referees, assistant coaches, and players. Sooner, rather than later, everyone is will put Champ on ignore and it just becomes background noise.

    A college football coach is as much CEO as he is an X and O guy. Proper motivation is tantamount to success, and yes, a broken clipboard and screaming tirade can be extremely effective at the right time and moment. But if that's all that's in the bag? It's a recipe for failure.
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  2. Ofg8r
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    Ofg8r Active Member

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    Wow. Can't tell you how much I appreciate an analysis of the Gator coach from a self-styled Arizona fan.

    Of course this AzCatFan has apparently not noticed that Muschamp's demeanor has changed dramatically since his first year as a HC.

    Interestingly, I was talking to a fellow in a UCLA jacket over the weekend at a high school soccer game. We talked about our mutual respect for Lane Kiffen ;) and other subjects. Since I identified myself as a long-time Gator fan, he volunteered what he thought of Steve Spurrier's demeanor through the years. It was interesting because he does not rep a school that Spurrier drubbed, so you would consider his unflattering opinion to be unbiased.

    On the other hand it was equally irrelevant.
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  3. AzCatFan
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    Been watching the Gators since I grew up in Florida in the 80's. My first ever game in the Swamp featured a very young Emmitt Smith. I moved to Arizona in high school and chose UA over UF to remain close to family. I've also been a member of this board for years, and have plenty of posts to show for it. I also still own a pair of orange Gator sweatpants from the 80's if anyone really wants proof of my Florida roots.

    Still, the point about Muschamp stands. And as an Arizona fan, I also witnessed, first hand, a similar coach with a similar fiery disposition eventually crash and burn. Mike Stoops also changed his demeanor, but it was too little too late. The team had completely tuned him out and realized this nicer, kinder Stoops wasn't real.

    Muschamp reminds me a lot of Mike Stoops. They make excellent defensive coordinators, but without a serious, long-term personality change that is rare, aren't cut out to be a head coach. Maybe Champ can turn it around next year, but leopards don't change their spots.
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  4. Bushmaster
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    Bushmaster Well-Known Member

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    When everything is worth going off on, then nothing is. You simply can not go off on every slight, bad call, mistake, etc., in a football game because there will come a time you have to go nuclear about something and when that happens, refs, players, etc., will just think "that's coach being coach."

    I trust WM will figure this out.
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  5. Ofg8r
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    Ofg8r Active Member

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    Thank you Doctor.

    On the other hand several logical fallacies could apply to your narrative; e.g., Inductive fallacy, association fallacy, or incomplete comparison. Others may identify different ones.


    The statement I quoted certainly illustrates one of the most egregious. You may believe that a person cannot effectively change personal demeanor once they recognize that it is inhibiting their life goals. Along with such organization as AA, I happen to believe that an individual can change fundamental behavior and become more functional in the process. Therefore, I call your citation of the tired cliche; "leopards don't change their spots" an excellent example of a glaring fallacy.

    With respect to whether Muschamp is cut out to be a HC, I have only the evidence available to this point. Maybe It is ambiguous. Was 2012, when he was the SEC Coach of the Year representative? Or 2013 when he had to deal with an extraordinary burden of injuries the best indicator? We may need a bit more time to resolve that question. Foley certainly thinks so.
  6. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    It is certainly possible to change, but even organizations like AA will tell you the underlying person is still the same. Even someone with a 5-year chip is a raging alcoholic, potentially one-drink away from an alcoholic death spiral. And one of the things these organizations will tell you if you want to change, remove yourself from the stressors that beget the behavior. Difficult for a head football coach to do if his source of stress is the very football game he is paid to coach.

    Of course I could be wrong. Muschamp very well could change and go on to have a long, fruitful career. Only time will tell. But if I were a betting man, I would bet against Muschamp being the Gator Coach this time next year. Even with all the injuries, Florida should be able to handle a mid-level FCS team at home. But many of the players were just going through the motions, and the results...well, 4-8 with a loss to Georgia Southern speaks for itself. Again, Muschamp could right the ship. But in my opinion, highly unlikely.
  7. phideltgator
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    phideltgator Active Member

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    holy smokes, muschamp change...that wouldn't be muschamp.
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  8. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    I think the comparison of Muschamp and Stoops is valid for discussion
  9. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    It's a delicate balancing act. The key is leadership. And the key to that, more than anything, is success. Which is why more than a few of us are really surprised by the sheer ineptitude of this year. You would have thought last year would have set the hook in that respect.

    It does trouble me personally as I've never really known of successful coaches that do the OLC/DC, emotional, rah-rah, routine. Hayes, and his protege of sorts Knight, are outliers IMO, and of another era when that stuff was more accepted. Ultimately the proposition comes down to whether the players feel they are succeeding because of Will and will they fight for him. The whole "buy in" thing.

    I really would like to believe that he is learning in that respect and maturing into a great coach as that is absolutely the best scenario for UF.

    Next year will be telling.

    Sorry for the two paragraph non-answer. But it's a decent question.
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  10. Ofg8r
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    Ofg8r Active Member

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    Fine, and do you also agree that Muschamp is bound to fail because his personality is allegedly similar tp Stoops, and Stoops failed?

    That was the point of my exception to the OP. Logical fallacies abound.

    I am not the only one that has noted that Muschamp's sideline demeanor has changed significantly. However, someone has started the fantasy that he goes off on players on the sidelines constantly--it is kind of like the fantasy that he sat on Weiss and Pease offensively. There is no evidence to support it--it is simply what some people want to believe.

    So, now we have people in Arizona psychoanalyzing our coach and predicting failure based on his personality.

    I know the 2012 season doesn't really count with the anti-Muschamp folks, since it was all luck, smoke and mirrors, but his demeanor was more volatile in that year than in 2013. Maybe folks should leave him alone and let him coach.
  11. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    No I don't think he is "bound" to fail because of a particular sideline demeanor. That would be a false dichotomy since we are quoting logical fallacies. I think that the OP was using the comparison as a data point to conduct some predictive analysis. Cached in bounded rationality, I think his prediction is as valid as anyone else's.
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  12. Distant Gator
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    This is it in a nutshell. I re-watch the season each year to pick up things I miss during the games. As I re-watch this season I am appalled at our lack of discipline and focus. The Georgia game, for instance, was completely winnable if not for some IDIOTIC penalties and lack of effort by our defense. (End of 1st half especially.)

    It's like we are out of control- just like Champ is on the sidelines. I can't help but think they are related.
  13. phideltgator
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    phideltgator Active Member

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    In the 80's? I already landed a 4 figure job by then. In the 80's? Big friggin deal. Look at at my record on the board. I was smashing coolers on gator fans while you where in elementary school.
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  14. LTG61
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    IMO, "emotion" should never be a euphemism for out-of-control rage, regardless of the frequency with which it occurs. That it is (in WM's case) is a sad commentary on our coach, especially since he is in such a highly-compensated, very public, leadership position where he is supposedly molding young people.

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