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Discussion in 'Gator Country Health and Fitness' started by philnotfil, Mar 8, 2012.
This is old news and was roundly rebutted almost literally the next day. For example:
Basically, we have here just another lame attempt to demonize a food group. Cold reality: we know that activity levels are basically unchanged since 1980. During that time, calorie consumption has soared.
Too many calories are what is making us fat.
Dream turn on www.undergroundwellness.com now listen to Dr. Kuse
Thanks, but only able to catch a few minutes of it. Did some hasty research on Kruse and Cold Thermogenesis does sound intriguing.
I've been reading Jack Kruse and others for about 6 weeks now. Eating a paleo/primal diet, doing resistance by lifting stone blocks building a patio by myself. Have lost + or - 20 pounds. Will continue as I am feeling and looking much better.
The cold therapy sounds logical but can't pucker up enough to do it. When driving in the car yesterday, I did set the A.C. thermostat to 60, though. Might try ice vest but can't see myself in an ice bath or cold shower.
Kruse's latest blog entry on Cold Thermogenesis: http://jackkruse.com/jacks-blog/
What makes you so sure that certain food groups shouldn't be demonized?
Wrong. Those who follow the Paleo diet -- myself included -- consume as many calories as anyone else. And you'll find that we are much leaner, stronger and of more robust metabolism than average Americans.
I literally eat snacks all day. Fruit, nuts, eggs. Meats and veggies for meals. I'm 6'2, 180 lbs and very fit at 34 years old. And that's with 2 brief HIIT exercise sessions per week. As a sophomore at UF, I was 210 lbs. with a 38-inch waistline. The difference is that back then I wasn't eating Paleo.
(1) I can see the force is strong with you. There is no such thing as 'good' and 'bad' foods.
(2) Wrong on at least two accounts. One, all ward studies show that weight-loss is due to calorie deficit regardless food choices. Two, paleos I know are not leaner than people who control their weight by other means. However, I can attest that paleos tend to be very dogmatic.
In brief: no, you cannot eat as much as you want and control your weight. Coupled with your exercise program, your food choices enable you CONTROL CALORIES and eat pretty much ad libitum.
Let's not split hairs regarding the semantics behind "good" and "bad" foods. Those aren't normative terms. To say that a food is "good" simply means that we have been consuming it for a long enough time to adapt to it as a species. That's the gist of Paleo, and it's both theoretically and empirically sound. Not sure why you wouldn't acknowledge this, other than the threat it poses to your own dogmatic views.
Nicho you say you consume as many calories as anyone else and paleo alone makes you leaner. That is simply not true studies have shown that those who limit carb intake eat between 1400 and 2100 calories. Therefore your diet is a calorie restricted one whether you plan for it to be or not. Add activity level and you are most certainly not anything like the average person who is less active and overeating.
I am not as hardcore about my carb intake as some Paleo folks. For me, it's more about not eating grains and legumes than it is about limiting carbs. So I'll have 3-4 bananas a day at times. Throw in all the almonds I consume and that's probably 1000 calories a day just in snacks. I'm probably in the range of 2400-2800 calories per day. Someday I'll sit down and do the math on it.
Yea probably worth it just to see where you are at. If you are actually around that range you still aren't overeating. I tend to think any plan that makes it hard to overeat and you enjoy it is worthwhile I just don't buy into the rest of it because for everyone saying paleo is the way there is a vegan telling me meat causes all of modern societies problems.
I agree that I'm not overeating. However, there are tons of people around me that eat no more than I do but don't have anything close to a lean build.
Paleo is the ultimate diet for humans. Any potential issue with sustainability is not inherent to the diet but instead relates to overpopulation of our pale blue dot. Even then, there are a few agricultural pioneers (e.g., Joel Salatin) who seem to think it can be done. I tend to agree with the premise of this article, which says that that a single, scalable solution doesn't exist. Efforts to make the world more Paleo would have to happen one region/locality at a time.
How do you know that? You track their calories, you are with them 24/7? There is simply no way for you to state that definitively, its just an assumption that helps you feel superior in your choices. Not to mention the right amount of intake is different for each person based on a number of factors that are not being considered here.
And here is where you lose me. Hard to argue with a true believer and so I am out.
That's your prerogative. I am just a results-oriented person, and having tried quite a few diets over the past 15 years, I can say without a doubt that Paleo has been the most effective. For the friends of mine who were willing to give it a try, they will say the exact same thing.
If you can introduce me to a way of eating that is more effective in achieving a lean body, more restful sleep, improved mental clarity, and on and on, I'll drop Paleo in a heartbeat. I just haven't found it yet.
That was the implication behind my "ultimate" comment. If you want to interpret it as some kind of pseudo-religious attempt at indoctrination, then that's your loss.
You're confused. You're the dogmatist, not I. I'm not the guy around here who's telling people what they have to do (aside from obeying the Law of Thermodynamics). I'm just the guy who's telling people what they DON'T have to do in order to transform their bodies. And they don't have to eat like their primal ancestors (whose lives were nasty, brutish and short) to do that.
Newsflash: the primals ate grains and potatoes!
And I eat lots of sugar and am leaner than you are. Sisson is a sham. He trumpets the primal diet and then designs supplements for P90X.
It's akin to mass-hypnosis.
Ah, the old "nasty, brutish and short" retread. Are you really going to make me point out the obvious here? That said short lifespans were attributable to the trauma and/or infection that so frequently occurred in prehistoric times, not chronic disease. And I suspect with that you'll try to counter with another fallacy: "now we are just living long enough for chronic diseases to manifest." If that's the case, why is adult-onset diabetes now known as Type II? Why are there doctors now who specialize exclusively in juvenile arthritis? Why is the incidence of strokes among teenagers increasing? Here's a hint: it's got nothing to do with diagnosis.
Good for them that they didn't live long enough to contract the sort of degenerative diseases that plague people in our time, diseases connected with eating ... too much sugar.
You can do better than that response, Dream. I mean that respectfully.
Also, let's not equate Sisson with the Paleo movement. He happens to be one guy supporting the diet, but any inconsistencies in his particular endeavors do not render the entire movement a sham. I don't pay for his website, anyway. Just pop in every now and then. Art De Vany seems to walk the walk. And while he probably has excellent genetics, there's just no way you can avoid attributing some of his vitality at his age to eating Paleo.