what is your argument to convince Dem or Rep to vote Libertarian or Tea Party

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oldgator, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    have at it.....bring forth your best convincing argument to convince a members of other party to vote Libertarian or Tea Party to vote Republican.

    I see a lot of personal attacks, hateful/vindictive comments on this board directed towards posters other political parties/point of view. Great to get your jollies and rally your base. But does little to do what really matters. Namely attract people to your point of view. Here's your chance to put forth your best arguments. And if you have been posting personal attacks towards people of different point of view. Why should those you've been attacking in such a way trust your argument?
  2. QGator2414
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    It's not about the argument. The money will prohibit the smaller parties from gaining traction. The Tea Party has the best shot of making head way because it is not a party but a movement within a party. And if it does not get the traction this country is doomed with the current two parties and establishment politicians.

    After seeing what has happened to Rubio I am very concerned there is no chance of correcting the problems. $16 trillion and counting...
  3. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    I am becoming more independent/libertarian weekly. It will not take someone convincing me. Those are becoming my default positions.
  4. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Obama running for the Dems, W running for the R's, in the same election.
  5. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    LOL...good answer. now that would produce some low voter turnout.
  6. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    great to see an open mind. Even if you are choosing party other than Dem.
  7. AustinGator1
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    Not certain you can 'convince' someone to grow up. It just has to happen. Until it happens they will keep thinking the political party makes a difference.
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  8. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Putting the Tea Party with the Libertarians is a stretch.

    You cant be for wing nut and Utopia at the same time.
  9. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    In my experience a person changing their point of view, party affiliation, or pretty much anything isn't a matter of growing up(because some instances the person actually seems to be regressing). I believe that a person changes when a light comes on in the person's head and the person realizes that they had been in denial of something. Whether that light coming on is God's hand(which I happen to believe) or that something finally got thru to the person's brain doesn't really matter. These things really can't be forced. But They can come about if we look around with our eyes open and ears listening.

    One of the funniest things I heard working in a hospital is when a parent was talking to his son the patient who was also an addict. And the father said 'can't you see that you are in denial'. that pretty much somes it up. the person in denial just doesn't see it even if it is in front of their eyes. And that can go on for years. But then one day the kid hears the same thing and for some reason the kid sees reality that he hadn't seen all those years even though it was in front of his eyes.

    Thing is, the above is what makes the media so potent either as a tool or as a weapon. If someone with money/power has voice in the media on a large scale and says the same message over and over again there is real possibility that people will believe it to be true whether or not is a truth or a lie

    It is what I believe some of you are referring to the difficulty of Libertarian(as well as Tea Party) having....lacking the warchest to present their stance to the American people and not be drowned out by the media of the GOP and Dem.

    Though I am a lib and a Dem i'll offer a possible solution that can be part of over all solution for the libertarians in regard to lacking the financial means to get enough MSM airtime.....get volunteers to flood the internet. It is very low cost. And it reaches further than most would believe. It is the path to recruiting and rallying the people most likely to be pursuaded and even attracted to Libertarian Party--the 18-35 people of America who tend not to tune into ABC/NBC?CBS nws at 6 like their parents or grandparents. And chances are they are pretty sick of the ultra left and ultra right holding sway over cable news channels such as Fox, CNN, MSNBC. Right now with $ at their disposal the Libertarian movement is pretty much doomed if it tries to match up with Dem/GOP in the MSM. The commercials, etc would probably be on a total basis 49.5% Dem, 49.5% GOP, and Libertarian getting about 1% of the commericial time and news coverage time.

    Another tactic Libertarian movement should try is to present itself as a bridge between the GOP and Dem parties. As opposed to being an 'alternative' to the two parties. Moderates and independents tend to be those willing to work together instead of against those of differing points of view. If Libertarian Party can present itself as a bridge between the two parties the Libertarian movement could likely draw a lot of moderates, independents, as well as some Dems and GOP. Tea Party when it first started was viewed by many as a possible bridge between the two parties but is now viewed as being in ultra portion of the GOP.

    btw...if I weren't a Dem I'd be a independent or Libertarian. So if Libertarian movement strives to be a bridge there is real chance I could switch.
  10. ncgatr1
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    I think that if you are a fiscal conservative, social liberal, and believe government should be limited, as well as the constitution should be followed, vote Libertarian. We believe in limited form of government and people should be encouraged and held responsible for success. We believe a good national defense is a deterrent. I think olgator is somewhat a Libertarian or so called "centrist"' I just don't think he has come full circle yet.
  11. g8orbill
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    in both the 2004 and 2008 I voted Libertarian- in 2012 I voted pub not because I was thrilled with Romney but because I wanted prezBO out- I like a lot of what the Tea Party stands for, I am just not sure how much traction they can get trying to be part of the pub party-both the dem party and the blue blood pubs dislike the Tea Partiers- I think I would try and focus on our Constitution when talking to a pub about the tea party and what it stands for
  12. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Pragmatist is the route I like. Bridges that don't fall down, roads that are safe. Staying out of war unless it is a direct war event against us.

    Being for the nation and not for the party. The party was once the Soviet mantra. Hate that some put that above the nation.

    Hatred for other Americans based on party more than hatred for those who would kill all of us, is stupid at best.
  13. g8orbill
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    my dislike(I try never to hate as it takes more energy than it is worth) is for people who want to change our Constitution and who want to continue to expand our guvment in the name of fairness and in the name of EW
  14. tegator80
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    I am afraid that the chance to "right the ship" pretty much sailed by the results from the past election. The winner was: money and treating the American public as stupid and spoiled children.

    And it worked. The only thing that is really left is the economic train wreck. And somehow a few people will be in MUCH better shape than the vast, VAST majority of the population.
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  15. gatordowneast
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    You may be right and likely are, but we have another chance for "change in command" in 2016, as there is a possibility that it is not too late and we must try. But if whoever is elected does not stay on point with the major economic issues looming, you will be 100% correct. It will be batton down the hatches time.

    And it will be more about the economic philosophies of whoever is elected and his/her leadership abilities, more than party. I'm liking a lot of what I hear from Rand Paul. I've always liked Paul Ryan and his command/knowledge of the issues. Mitch Daniels and John Kasich have both been on the front lines and have succeeded. Bob McDonnell of VA is someone I am not as familiar with but seems to be a bright, young leader. Rubio can grow into the role but frankly I would love to see him run the state of Florida as governor, gaining executive experience prior to running for Prez.
  16. QGator2414
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    +1

    Though I am not sure Romney would have done enough to "right the ship" either.
  17. gatordowneast
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    Granted but he would likely not have focused on Gun Control, Gay Marriage, Greenhouse Gasses and Amnesty. I would have guessed he would have concentrated more on economic issues than the goof we've got.
  18. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    y view of politics and its impact on America is that the two party GOP vs Dem adversarial(us vs them and not working together) has resulted in a total screwing up of our nation's homeostasis.

    Homeostasis is a biology term defined as follows
    The tendency toward a relatively stable equilibrium between interdependent elements, esp. as maintained by physiological processes.

    The important thing about being in that relatively stable equilibrium is that is when the organism(or in my analogy the country and people) are in best shape(ie--financially, health, military, growth, business, etc). That it is when we swing too far in one direction or the other that we as a nation suffer. With people though when things swing too far in one direction --ultras one one end of political spectrum are happy and the other ultras are pissed. And the ultras who are pissed fall to human vice of wanting revenge and set about swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction where they'll be happy and the other ultras become pissed. sadly, it appears neither group of ultras wants to stop the contest of power and work towards the middle where both can live with a degree of being glad of situation but not quite as happy as they'd be if they got revenge by swinging pendulum all the way to their side.

    Sort of like the following
    two very young children are on a see-saw going up and down playfully and happily and both benefiting from the game and the exercise. But then one child gets the notion of getting his end of the see saw so that he can sit there with feet on the ground and maybe talk with another kid. The other child stuck at other end of the see-saw gets more and more upset at the other kid. The kid stuck at end of see-saw with feet in the air decides to bounce around,etc and somehow gets it so that he has his feet on the ground and the other kjid is stuck up in the air unable to get down. That is pretty much our political environment the last 20+ years. Question then becomes whether the two kids will decide to stop revenge cycle in favor of getting the see-saw to be such that it swings mildly up and down to the satisfaction of both(Dem and GOP). The ultras seem to relish the revenge cycle. While moderates, independents, etc want the madness to stop.
  19. PIMking
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    I will say that I have never voted party line and never will.

    I have tried to convince people to vote for my canidate but the media does a much better job telling them how much easier it will be to get free stuff if they vote for the other guy and then I'm toast
  20. tegator80
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    The only viable ship righting was to throw the bums out and if the next batch is as bad as the last, keep it up until you realize that money and politics isn't a good marriage and you need to try something different, say a teacher or engineer or small business owner who isn't beholden to political parties and their money interests.

    Money has won, fair and square (read we didn't throw anyone out, including the most egregiously partisans) and it clearly shows that we will only "Get Religion" when something catastrophic happens. I am betting on the Federal budget mess, coupled with the "Free Lunch" society known as Obamacare and Permanent Disability.

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