What is theFuture of the Energy Landscape

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Drilling deeper for more expensive water, will still make your energy cost go up. Adding the cost of drilling will make that salt water even more expensive than ocean front states.

    I thought in the 1970's our inventions would reduce our hostage status to oil. Yet each invention is fought like the plague to keep using the steam engine as our primary way of making electric.

    Steam takes water, wind and photo solar uses zero water. Thermal and photo solar makes sense in desert states. Thermal uses some but not as much water as other steam systems. But is also a steam system.

    We can update small hydroelectric plants in this nation and get the equal of 20 nuke plants for very little money. Way less than building ONE nuke plant.

    Hydroelectric is excepted by many even though it is green energy as people grew up with it, but just like a wind prop or a natural gas driven turbine, they just make something spin.

    Wind is best in the Midwest wind corridor. And NG makes sense in the north and south, east.

    You do what is best for your region to add energy systems that fit that region.

    They then support the usual systems we already have. With growth, we are going to need them all.

    The steam engine should not be where we stop with tech...
  2. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    do you think water is fairly priced as a commodity now or do you think we are just so used to getting it so cheap that we take it for granted. most people get water pumped out of the ground, treated, tested, delivered to your tap at under $5 for 1000 gallons. These people will complain about a rise in that price yet pay $5 for a single cup of coffee. See San Francisco, ultimate liberal bastion, for a good example of how they freaked out when they find out their water bill may go up to restore Hetch Hetchy. they would let the farms die just to give them libs their cheap water

    People will pay more for their phone and data plan than they will for delivery clean fresh water and sanitary collection and treatment.

    We have plenty of water, not enough cheap water. Water needs to be repriced.

    solar and wind are fine if they can deliver the btu at the lowest price. they cannot..they cannot even come close. see Germany for a good case study of what it does to the economy to try and force it to go green. British voters now fed up with cost of going green too
  3. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I was surprised to read that too. Certainly, if the dam is already built, we might as well maximize its use.
  4. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    I agree but remember that whoever touches it owns it. Dirty little secret is lots of dams are very deficient. That may be a big liability that is slowing down people that are otherwise willing to plumb new systems
  5. OklahomaGator
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  6. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    I kinda think the market is doing it for us.

    Source and Use of Energy

    For Electricity
    --Coal (41%)
    --Natural Gas (24%)
    --Nuclear (21%)
    --Renewable (including hydroelectric) (12%)
    --Oil (1%)


    For other sources and uses, see chart;

    [​IMG]

    http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/article/major_energy_sources_and_users.cfm
  7. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Touche...

    But all the more reason for the Feds to step in with subsidies. Once the defects are fixed and new pipes installed, a new power source gets connected to the grid--and hydropower is certainly one of the cheaper sources of clean energy out there.
  8. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Germany is a case study, true. A cautionary tale about going green in areas it's ill-suited to handle.

    The Germans invested a lot into solar and wind--but it's a continental climate and not exactly the best for accessing solar power with the clouds and weather. Wind is slightly better, but even then, Germany is more limited in what they can get from wind given it's a much smaller country and not as many favorable spots for consistent wind like there are here.

    In the US, we have the option of choosing between putting a solar plant in Arizona or California over Washington or Ohio...the Europeans generally don't.

    And, simultaneously, the Germans moved away from nuclear power...shutting down all their plants and denying them valuable backups on days the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing. Utilities compensated by buying power from non-renewable sources...but paid higher penalties (making it more expensive).

    Britain is rebelling right now for similar reasons, but wind is much more consistent around the British Isles and the plants are just starting to come online in sufficient numbers to be cost-effective. Once they do, the wind power they do generate will be among the world's cheapest.
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  9. HallGator
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    Yeah, but will it be quick enough to continue to meet our needs? I'm not for government getting into the energy business but I am for low interest loans and rational regulations which allow these start-up companies enough time to get going. They also screwed the pooch on the bill which would have helped convert big rigs to NG.
  10. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    This is the diversity...today.


    The good news is that for electricity generation, the two biggest sources of energy come from inside the USA. We have a lot of reserves of natural gas and coal. And, as I pointed out earlier, in a coupla years the USA will produce more oil than any other single nation in the world. If we are aggressive, we can be self sufficient for oil use in less than 20 years.

    I am more optimistic about energy abundance and security than I have been for some long time
  11. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Agreed. A national infrastructure bank seeded with offshore profits brought home at low or no tax rates
  12. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    The dams I speak of are already built, but can add capacity without much money and are already grid tied.

    Saying an energy type has to be the cheapest would mean we would end up with only one source of energy when we will need them all at some point.

    Wind is damn cheap and only coal and NG compare. In the long run without any fuel to buy, wind is the cheapest. And when there is no fuel to buy due to some event that shuts down a fuel, they continue to rock on.

    Solar works best during peak energy times which is daytime. Adding energy when you need it is a good thing.

    Farms can use methane, solar, biofuels, and wind to produce their own energy. Homes can't drill their own oil for the most part, but can put a solar panel on their homes or a wind tower and be totally independent and have lights when the grid goes down.

    If you live in the mountains, mini hydro systems can produce energy for you day and night with a minor stream or spring on property.

    You can save money in your home right now by understanding that if you turn on everything during peak times it will cost one hell of a lot more than if you did the same thing after midnight.

    Run your big stuff before 10 in the morning and after 9 at night and you will see a drop in your electric bill by doing so. If you have to run in peak times, only run one major appliance at a time.

    A company in SW Florida is building LED stadium lights now. They don't have the lag time to start up like the ones we have now and use a lot less energy. Lowering demand helps as much as adding supply.

    You can't talk about the future when your only choice of energy is a steam engine invented in 1775. Even nuke is just a big tea kettle that runs an invention older than our nation.

    Thermal solar uses that system if that is your thing. If the sun stops working, it won't matter how much oil we have.

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