Watch Florida Man Murder His Neighbors Because They Were Mean To Him (VIDEO)

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator996, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    SYG is becoming the statute of choice amongst vigilantes...

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09/04/watch-florida-man-murder-his-neighbors-because-they-were-mean-to-him-video/


    Watch Florida Man Murder His Neighbors Because They Were Mean To Him (VIDEO)



    There is a tactic used in debates known as the “slippery slope” fallacy in which one side claims that a course of action will inevitably lead to a ridiculous conclusion. For instance: conservatives like to claim that marriage equality will lead to legalized pedophilia and bestiality. The idea is to fearmonger the other side into acquiescence. It’s also used to deflect legitimate criticism by insisting a perfectly reasonable fear is overblown. The NRA and the gun nut lobby has been using this to defend the easily abused “Stand Your Ground” law but, sooner or later, reality comes crashing down:


    Attorneys for a man who police said shot three people at the culmination of a neighborhood feud have filed a motion demanding a jury determine whether William T. Woodward’s murder charges should be dismissed under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law.

    The motion says Woodward had been the target of a variety of threats and “exercised his right under Florida law to defend himself and his family that night.”

    This defense represents an incredibly dangerous evolution and escalation of the idea of “self defense.” Stand Your Ground laws have already distorted self defense to an almost meaningless concept but this new case threatens to unleash a wave of violence that will be difficult to stem. What makes this case so different?



    The motion filed by Woodward’s attorneys says in the hours prior to the shooting, all three men were yelling at Woodward and that this type of behavior had been ongoing for over a month.

    In the hours before the shooting, the men called him names, and said “Come on boys. We’re going to get him. We’re going to get him, all three of us.”

    So a few hours later, Woodward snuck up on the three men and opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon. They didn’t assault him or approach him and they weren’t on his property. He simply decided that he’d had enough and “felt threatened” so he killed two men and tried to kill a third.

    If his defense, which cites, of all things, the Bush Doctrine of preemptive attacks, is successful (and we’re talking about Florida here) then “self-defense” will officially be dead as a concept. In its place will be what is essentially a lawless state in which anyone that utters the words “I’ll kick your ass” is now a legal target for murder. After all, how can you tell if they’re serious or not? Better to be safe and nip that threat in the chest with a dozen rounds.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb-Fv024Jvk
  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    See, for it to be "SYG abuse", the claim has to actually prevail in court, doesn't it?

    I don't see why the immunity component, the actual SYG, distorts self-defense at all, it doesn't change any of the elements, and no duty to retreat is -- FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME -- the majority self-defense rule in the US. So unless you think it is distorted nationwide?

    Either way, I think this guy gets laughed out of court. Ask LD, but I even wonder if a judge at trial will let self-defense go to the jury, since I don't know if he can make the prima facie showing.

    So he will lose, and we will still have no documented case of anyone relying successfully on our use of force statute or an SYG motion to kill for free.
  3. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    No, the existence & attempted use of this poorly worded law is "abuse" enough.

    The law as written encourages actions like the one described above because of the loose interpretations of the law.

    Its acting as a provocation to violence for some because the "buzz words & actions" are becoming more widely known.

    Shoot someone...make sure you claim "fear" from your victims actions or statements prior to shooting...
  4. oldgator
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    michi---you are right when it comes to legal abuse of SYG.

    Thing is,, there be a ton of wackos out there(left, right, and whatever else) who will kill and then see if they can stretch SYG to get away with murder(as opposed to defending home or standing their ground).

    In principle I approve SYG laws. I'm also realist enough to recognize that people will try to abuse the law either in court, in media, etc
  5. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    As far as I can tell, the only people struggling to understand the language are you and the preposterous knuckleheads that write nonsense like the (usually not) SYG articles you post, 996.

    This guy doesn't have a claim of self-defense under any legal theory I can think of except maybe as a battered wife, which... well, he isn't. This isn't an SYG case, it isn't a justifiable use of force case, it is just hollow propoganda. Ironically, if he got the idea he could rely on the statute and do this, he probably got it from absurd anti-SYG hyperbole like the articles you are so fond of that concoct such completely implausible, inapplicable scenarios.

    EDIT: Old, that is my point -- if shackle get the idea they can exploit the law this way, it isn't coming from the actual statute or case law, it is coming from... well, 996, or at least the sort of "scholarly" "analysis" of the law he is fond of.
  6. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    We see what the Leftists are up to with regards to the SYG law. Anytime someone kills another person using a gun they'll call it SYG abuse. This is the narrative coming straight from Media-Matters... I'm sure.
  7. WESGATORS
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    While the points referenced after that are notable. This statement is indeed ironic considering the fear-mongering about SYG laws.

    It seems likely that harassing people beyond their limits are what led to this shooting. That doesn't make the shooting morally right or justifiable (certainly not legally right or justifiable), but sometimes the victims' immoral behavior can be identified as one of the causes of their own demise. People who have been bullied have been known to reach a boiling point, and once that boiling point has been reached, we've seen examples of violent and irrational responses. If this case pans out like it appears it might, hopefully part of the message is used as part of an anti-bullying campaign.

    Again, none of this makes the shooting ok, but as Michi states, it's not a flaw unless it works in a court of law when it shouldn't have. Most law-breakers don't scrutinize the statutes to find out what they can legally get away with, I doubt that is the case with this shooting.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  8. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Yes, blame the media not the legal counsel of the shooters who attempt to abuse the statute.

    How convenient.
  9. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    His lawyers should try out any legal theory they reasonably believe can prevail for their client, that is their job. Whose job is it to propagandize and misrepresent the statute to the lay public?
  10. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Yes, and they obviously think it reasonable to propose SYG in cases like these although you started this discussion explaining to us how incredulous this attempt is...

    Talking out of both sides of your mouth much?

    I'm really glad we the taxpayer of Florida are entrusted to pay for stupid SYG hearings...

    Court costs
    Law Enforcement time wasted


    The law needs to be more clearly written to eliminate the ridiculous attempts to use this law to justify unjustifiable murders.


    You immediately defend the law...I say re-write it, its poorly crafted.
  11. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    WHAT? Legal counsel tries to abuse, twist, bend and sometimes break EVERY statue they can to get their client a favorable ruling. It doesn't matter if it is a hit and run, drunk driving, murder 1 or grand theft.

    And you have yet to produce a single case of someone claiming SYG and getting away with murder due to the statue. Just because they claim SYG does not mean SYG helps them. It is like pleading insanity to get out of going to jail. How often does that really work? Maybe that is a bad statue as well? Why not research that and rail against it for a while? Oh wait.It doesn't suit your political leaning does it.
  12. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Try the Tampa Times website for what's the best compilation of SYG cases in Florida anywhere.

    http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/

    There are few things that are born out from the "research":

    1. The NRA doesn't want the data that you suggest I go look up to even be recorded.

    2. Since the law's inception there have been many cases of questionable homicides that have tried to invoke the defense.

    Conclusion?
    It hasn't been uniformly applied and has lots of controversial outcomes.


    So since I've done my "research"....


    Let's see yours.
    Or is yours nothing more than opinion & conjecture?
  13. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    966 want's nanny-state socialism... plain and simple.
  14. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Florida 'stand your ground' law yields some shocking outcomes depending on how law is applied

    By Kris Hundley, Susan Taylor Martin and Connie Humburg, Times Staff Writers

    Friday, June 1, 2012 10:25am


    Florida's "stand your ground'' law has allowed drug dealers to avoid murder charges and gang members to walk free. It has stymied prosecutors and confused judges. It has also served its intended purpose, exonerating dozens of people who were deemed to be legitimately acting in self-defense. Among them: a woman who was choked and beaten by an irate tenant and a man who was threatened in his driveway by a felon.

    Seven years since it was passed, Florida's "stand your ground" law is being invoked with unexpected frequency, in ways no one imagined, to free killers and violent attackers whose self-defense claims seem questionable at best.

    Cases with similar facts show surprising — sometimes shocking — differences in outcomes. If you claim "stand your ground" as the reason you shot someone, what happens to you can depend less on the merits of the case than on who you are, whom you kill and where your case is decided.


    Today, the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teen, by a Hispanic neighborhood watch captain has prompted a renewed look at Florida's controversial law.

    In the most comprehensive effort of its kind, the Tampa Bay Times has identified nearly 200 "stand your ground'' cases and their outcomes. The Times identified cases through media reports, court records and dozens of interviews with prosecutors and defense attorneys across the state.

    Among the findings:

    • Those who invoke "stand your ground" to avoid prosecution have been extremely successful. Nearly 70 percent have gone free.

    • Defendants claiming "stand your ground" are more likely to prevail if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white.

    • The number of cases is increasing, largely because defense attorneys are using "stand your ground" in ways state legislators never envisioned. The defense has been invoked in dozens of cases with minor or no injuries. It has also been used by a self-described "vampire" in Pinellas County, a Miami man arrested with a single marijuana cigarette, a Fort Myers homeowner who shot a bear and a West Palm Beach jogger who beat a Jack Russell terrier.

    People often go free under "stand your ground" in cases that seem to make a mockery of what lawmakers intended. One man killed two unarmed people and walked out of jail. Another shot a man as he lay on the ground. Others went free after shooting their victims in the back. In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free.

    Similar cases can have opposite outcomes. Depending on who decided their cases, some drug dealers claiming self-defense have gone to prison while others have been set free. The same holds true for killers who left a fight, only to arm themselves and return. Shoot someone from your doorway? Fire on a fleeing burglar? Your case can swing on different interpretations of the law by prosecutors, judge or jury.

    A comprehensive analysis of "stand your ground" decisions is all but impossible. When police and prosecutors decide not to press charges, they don't always keep records showing how they reached their decisions. And no one keeps track of how many "stand your ground" motions have been filed or their outcomes.

    Claiming "stand your ground,'' people have used force to meet force outside an ice cream parlor, on a racquetball court and at a school bus stop. Two-thirds of the defendants used guns, though weapons have included an ice pick, shovel and chair leg.
  15. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Tasselhoff?

    :laugh:
  16. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    966, why do you write so much... garbage. I don't even bother reading your novels anymore.
  17. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    That's fine....you're free to read & respond to whatever you like here.


    I do the same.

    After reading the 1,000th "Blame Obama for everything wrong in your life..."
    I like to change the field position a bit.

    Its interesting to hear the conservatives here on defense of their principles.
    but it rarely gets there because the most prolific of you posting responses usually never have anything other than unsupported opinion, speculation, and personal attacks.

    It usually starts there with most of you and then heads downhill....


    Like in the minimum wage thread, you're attacking me asking if I'm a macroeconomic expert (which is part of my real-life job) because of something I quoted in an article.

    If you question the veracity of the statement....go disprove it by finding an alternative opposing piece of data.

    Don't refute it by attacking me....who didn't write it.


    I notice that a lot here....You don't dispute the statement with fact you attack the poster.

    Must be good for your frail confidence but it doesn't make for good debate.
  18. gator1986
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    gator1986 Well-Known Member

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    Blaming Obama for everything wrong in their life is no different than blaming Bush for Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.

    These debates are stupid, and will never end. As long as we have republicans and democrats harping each other, our country is fu*ked, so get used to it. Both parties have good ideas, and bad ideas. Why not work together on issues to figure out what's in the best interest for the people who elected you morons into office, instead of working to fill ones pocket.

    Learn to work together for the better of Americans, and the world altogether instead of trying to sabotage what each other does, and maybe this country would not be so as* backwards.

    Stop the race wars, and race baiting. Stop blaming each other for things you control. Stop living off the government, and start being proactive in getting an education, and being a valued member to society, instead of leaching off everyone else.
  19. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, had work to do.

    Read what you posted. It is still surmising the SYG allowed the guilty to get away with murder. Just because a drug dealer used SYG does not mean that the case was not SYG.

    Just because one person gets a favorable ruling and another doesn't does not mean SYG did not work. The simple facts are each and every circumstance is different. This "research" is nothing more than a gathering of random SYG cases and their results. There is no inquiry into the circumstances, validity, or reasoning behind each verdict. The samething could be done with DUI laws, insanity pleas, or anything else.
  20. gator996
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    All of that is very true.... up until your last paragraph

    When you show me how social programs haven't been used to the betterment of American society I'll then begin to disavow them...

    But the GI Bill, the New Deal, housing incentives, education incentives, financial incentives have all been used to the better of the "majority" since the inception of this union...now that those incentives aren't going exclusively to that majority there's a great political outcry to end those incentives.

    Now its "leaching"....


    Was it leaching when the GI Bill educated & housed millions on the public dime?

    Was it a benefit for this nation to get the rate of those with higher education raised through public program?

    Should it appear to minorities who are trying to use the same methods that the majority class is closing off routes of opportunity after they benefitted from them?

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