Want Fairness? GOP Tax Reform is Coming

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ncbullgator, Jul 10, 2013.

  1. ncbullgator
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    ncbullgator Well-Known Member

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  2. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    This should have happened a long time ago. I had no idea that the taxes for the top 1% and 5% had risen so much since 1980. And the 41.6% that don't pay anything with some of them actually getting more money back then they payed... has to stop.

    Minimal money/revenues collected by our government to make it work sufficiently is the only way to fix our long term economic out look. That and an "all of the above" energy plan that Obama lied about.
  3. gregthegator
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    gregthegator Well-Known Member

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    so ya'll really fall for opinion of one THE worst politicians...architect of repealing Glass/Spegal act....in BED politically w/Prez. Clinton...that has financially destroyed and is destroying THE little guy...

    and I quote..." Today, the top 1% and 5% pay 37.4% and 59.1%"....yet they OWN 70%+ of EVERYTHING.

    Sales tax that is...flat rate across the board...the so-called fair tax is BIG con job...
  4. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    Excellent article. Forget who wrote it. The principles are correct. We have too many people not paying anything. Everyone needs to pay something if only 3% Federal and 7% SS and Medicare.
  5. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    End all tax deductions & treat garages and hedge funds the same? Yeah, the Republicans will never pass that.
  6. tommike
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    tommike New Member

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    That of course was Milton Fiedmans idea and Ronald Reagan supported it a negative income tax for lower income folks. Don't worry the poor pay plenty at a state and local level. Now the pubs holler about the negative income tax. Humorous to say the least.
  7. leogator
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    leogator Well-Known Member

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    Everybody pays for Social Security and Medicare.

    BTW I really like eliminating all deductions period end of story, I don't care what the deductions are for. I'm also for eliminating any kind of subsidies including farm subsidies.

    I predict 0% chance of it passing!
  8. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    If the "poor" pay too much at the "state" and "local" level they can always move to a right to work state that has no state or local income-tax... we're talking about Federal income taxes for all. The Fed steals way too much money from the citizens of our country.
  9. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Or the (D)s. Just as in bed with Wall Street as the (R)s.


    Which is exactly the way Wall Street wants it.


    But, hey, let's keep arguing over the dog-and-pony show.
  10. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    that's not what right to work means
  11. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    Im somewhat sure that Rick knows that.
  12. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I'm sure plenty of middle class people love their tax deductions for mortgages, student loans, child care, etc. Nothing to with Wall Steet on any of those.
  13. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    Im a fan of the fair tax, but I would welcome a flat tax as well.

    8% off everyones back, no deductions for anyone or anything. Reduce spending to meet with the revenues generated from that.
  14. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    if you want 'fair' I suggest folks go west on Fl state road 80 out of WPB and go to the fairgrounds for the county fair.

    'fair' in terms of tax laws are an illusion, a utopia, a Camelot. Simply put---what some people consider 'fair' will be viewed by others as 'unfair' and vice versa.

    A number of things in the article I agree with. ie---a govt should try to bring in just enough revenue so as to not be in the red. And his suggestions as to who should be taxed, removal of exemptions, removal of business subsidies, etc sure won't go over too well with the people who were at the table in the Romney 47% video.

    Chances are there would be objections to the Gramm package just as vehemently from the right as from the left. Which would probably mean that it is just what is needed if it pisses off the ultras of both parties

    practically speaking---it ain't gonna happen with the characters on the right and left in DC these days
  15. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Just taking a shot at your one-sided post. Maybe it should have read "politicians" and not "Republicans?" Also, not so sure Wall Street doesn't have a hand in Student Loans and Mortgages. Don't the deductions create an incentive to take out such loans? And who makes the interest off the loans? And who sold packaged mortgages on the backend along with collecting interest?
  16. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    I've often wondered why (D)s are so against the fair tax. Not their idea?

    Because when you look at it deeper, it would seem to be the perfect (D) tax system. Just think, you could issue a card (like welfare) that would make certain goods untaxed for certain people. Or you could affect direct tax increases/decreases (in immediate real time) to specific products (say gas during a crisis or food all the time) at specific times. Just think of all the control that would give the government. They don't like your company, just raise the rate of tax on your items. Oil shortage? Drop the rate until it levels out. And, since all it would take is a tweak of technology, it's all immediate.

    For (R)'s it might be a case of be careful what you ask for.
  17. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I am open to some other tax system, but my questions about Fair Tax, which I've stated here many times:
    1. It's not a 23-percent sales tax, it's a 30-percent sales tax. So first of all, be honest about.
    2. Much of it seems based on the idea that prices will automatically go down without all the taxes along the way. I don't think it necessarily works like that.
    3. The people in favor of it seem to think it will shift tax burden from them to someone else, and I'm guessing that's the poorer people who the Fair Tax people think are not paying their share.
    4. It certainly opens up a great possibility of black markets. In Jacksonville, you're talking about 37 percent sales tax when you add state and local. I'd bet I'd be look for alternatives to paying $370 on a $1,000 TV or $9,250 on a $25,000 car. I don't even want to think about $74,000 in taxes on a $200,000 home. Who would buy new?
  18. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Why do you hate seniors and retirees?
  19. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    It was one-side because the audience of the article was Republicans. "Republicans should ..." Otherwise, I'm known for my rigorous objectivity. :)

    I think its a better argument for mortgage interest, but still not really. The primary incentive to take out a mortgage or student loan is to own a house or pay for school, which society generally considers "good" decisions or at least a measure of middle class status, or an entry into such status. But more to the point, the main reason there is still a significant middle class is because of tax credits and other "wealth transfers." So, assualting that is a political non-starter. Romney mentioned eliminating tax credits, but never mentioned anything specific, even when pressed. Its nice in the abstract, but when you mention specifics, you lose politically.
  20. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Couple things I believe you are ignoring:
    2. Not so much that prices go down (though many think they would) but that you are taking home more money. . . about 20-30%. You also ignore that certain essential items - say produce, etc. - could be taxed at a lower rate or not taxed at all to offset the seemingly regressive nature. Or, certain folks could be exempted from tax altogether to offset the seemingly regressive nature.

    3. Actually, the way I've heard it presented, the burden would stay pretty much the same as it would tax consumption. Add in a lower rate or no taxes on essentials or tax exempt status for the poor and its even more so.

    4. Relative. You have more in your pocket too.


    Again, not going to be the panacea (R)s think and potentially more invasive depending on how it's used. But, IMO, fairer and less waste. Biggest issue is the transition to it. Will absolutely kill the accounting industry (except for software developers, probably a boon for them) and put a real dent in financial services. But, IMO, they can all go . . . . themselves anyway, so I'll lose no sleep over that. More important, it puts a lot of cash back into the system that would otherwise go offshore, into trusts, into the pockets of tax preparers, tax accountants, attorneys, etc. By some estimates,

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