Walter Williams Nails It

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by QGator2414, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    I don't disagree that GS programs play into the idea of inferiority, but I don't find the suggestion that the GS can be considered an origination point for inferiority as a cultural meme to be very credible. And neither should you. Blacks weren't doing *nicely* up until LBJ went hogwild. They were living as an oppressed, victimized, and often despised minority across the US. When LBJ with the prodding of Dr. King lifted the 400 year siege, yes, it allowed the emergence of overt symptoms and even amplified those symptoms, but it was not the underlying cause.
  2. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    No one ever said it was it was not that bad.
    I am willing to state that slavery is a sin against God and to the people who are slaves.
    There is nothing you can say that makes it right or minimalize the pain and suffering that comes with slavery.

    On the other hand the Native Americans were never really consider slaves. The Spanish and some attempt in Florida. The results was the extinction of all the native tribes that resided in Florida in the 16th century. Many Native Americans died of diseases and other just fled Florida for the Choctaw, Creek, and Cherokee tribes.

    We just pointed out that the slaves and former slaves as well as their children fared much better. To be honest with you their never was an overt attempt to wipe out the slaves and their desendents. On the other hand there were several sad events in our US History where genocide of the Native Americans was particially carried out.

    In certain events the colonists and later the Americans deliberately attempted to infect the Native Americans with diseases knowing tha the results were fatal.
    Also, there were events where the burning of villages and crops were timed so that the Native Americans could not replenish their food stocks. Thus creating famine like conditions. As for trying to wipe out the Native Americans the US was not content with just killing and force migrations. There was a move to erase the culture

    http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/5127:new-documentary-tracks-cultural-genocide-of-american-indians

    Sorry for hyjacking the thread. I will get back on topic with my next post.
  3. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    I'd argue both were just as heinous as the other. Two sides of one coin if you will. Both were state and culturally supported.

    I'm not sure Native Americans are faring much better than African Americans outside of those areas enriched by casinos. Maybe that is just my perception from what I've seen in 15 years living in moderate proximity to Native Americans in New Mexico and Oregon. In my opinion there has been a substantial breakdown in Native American culture and high rates of alcoholism, unemployment, etc. It isn't surprising when as a country we relegated Native Americans to largely unwanted tracts of land.

    If you want to see truly depressing statistics look up unemployment rates on the various Reservations. Poverty and unemployment in those locations are simply staggering.
  4. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    Agree

    I think personal responsibility is a two way street here...individuals, towns, cities, states, and federal social and economic policy all play a role in uplifting people out of poverty
  5. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    +1
  6. dynogator
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    dynogator Well-Known Member

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    What are these "counter-productive remedies?"
  7. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thing about drugs though is while they are destructive to people regardless of race/ethnicity, social class etc...those in the middle and upper classes are often buffered from some of the most devastating effects, and if not buffered, it's much more hidden from view.

    Middle and upper class folks of any race are less likely to receive any prison time for their drug use/crimes (even selling) and are thus much more buffered by their affluence. I mean, compare the drug use in the hood vs. on Wall St, which is known for the rampant drug use.

    In the lower classes, yes, there is a more pronounced effect and maybe even more so in predominantly black neighborhoods where the drug war has helped decimate some of those communities in ways that are hard to believe: See Tulia, TX
  8. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    GS remedies that allow the underclass to exist permanently without ever attempting to be productive, with the aid of both legitimate benefits and perhaps under-reported instances of fraud.
  9. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Your assertions are as misguided as they are irrelevant.
  10. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    There is no perfect system that will work as designed without someone scamming or otherwise misusing it. However, poverty decreased significantly after the GS and the black middle class grew as a result of affirmative action in larger corporations and government jobs. Those who rail against the latter fail to notice the defacto affirmative action whites have always enjoyed here by virtue of smaller businesses preferential hiring of those who look like themselves or family members. That is just an undeniable fact of life which is based on human nature rather than overt racism.
  11. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    I don't know with any certainty how much it is about "laziness" or unproductivity, but didn't the 1994 welfare reform legislation help do away with some of that? For one, many of the poor who receive welfare are kids and elderly. But on top of that, many who receive assistance actually work or are disabled and those that were not were required to work within two years.

    At a broader level, though, we will always have poverty and some folks taking from the system out of sheer laziness, and others through fraud, and others (which I believe is likely the vast majority) receive the assistance because it will really help them get by

    Poverty largely begets poverty and wealth largely begets wealth and the former to me speaks more to the debilitating generational effects that not having money does to families and their offspring. Plenty of poor who work and worked really hard their entire lives too.


    (The struggle is for those in the middle who while maybe inheriting some money from their parents "estate,"it's not enough to bump them up to the upper class where money and security are not an issue. So they work hard with the (American) dream...for good or bad...of striking it rich and if not, doing enough to provide the best opportunities for their off-spring.)
  12. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    Which are, btw, the very liberal groups who blame everybody else for everything except themselves. :roll:
  13. dynogator
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    dynogator Well-Known Member

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    Forgive my density, but are we talking about welfare here? Food stamps? After a quick look at Wiki, I don't see much about the Great Society that I disagree with. There's even something about lower taxes in there for the connies.
  14. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    It's not really arguable, and I don't think you'd disagree with the idea that when a thing is subsidized you get more of it. I'm not assigning culpability to any particular race or ethnicity, but I think it is naive to ignore the reality that much of the industry of the underclass is largely consumed by the effort to game the system. The reasons for this may transcend the system, but that doesn't really make the system part of the solution either. Yes, I think GS programs have helped in some ways, but I think they've also increased the comfort level of people that would be better served by being less comfortable.
  15. dynogator
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    dynogator Well-Known Member

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    Since they are a part of "everybody," as I posted earlier, you are correct.
  16. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Connies? Is that supposed to be insulting or jocularly diminutive? I find either sense ill advised.
  17. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    So am I railing against affirmative action?
  18. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    No, and I'm sorry if implied that without meaning to.
  19. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    I appreciate that, Row. So do you agree that the underclass makes significant efforts to game and exploit the system?
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    108 Premium Member

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    What percentage do you think this "underclass" is?

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