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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 96Gatorcise, Dec 11, 2013.
Then it (pipeline) will save the aquifer...
Interesting fact: 99% of the corn produced in the U.S. is not "edible" (is not made for human consumption). It's called dent corn (each kernel has a small indentation). It is used for animal feed and ethanol. It has the highest yield of any type of corn, apparently.
OK, but that does not obviate my point. Water is everywhere. You are conflating easily accessible, inexpensive sources of water with total sources of water. The two are not the same.
The earth will NEVER run out of water, at leasta s it pertains to mankind using it.
I agree, but there are other crops that need water too.
correct...we have plenty of water, just not plenty of cheap water
And it isn't always found where it is most needed...
I understand what you're saying, but we are about to enter an age where the costs for water use (especially inland, or out west) are about to go up dramatically. That has a serious effect on the economy. Manufacturing, for example, typically requires a lot of water for various reasons, and would become less competitive with coastal operations, or countries with greater access to fresh water. Most people would be alarmed the first time they had to pay $3 or so to take a shower.
And if you use more energy to make fresh water, you will probably be making most of that energy with fossil fuels, using them up that much faster. When you look at countries like China, they will be burning a lot of the lowest quality coal to make energy, increasing their already horrendous levels of pollution, some of which they export to the west coast of the U.S.
Canada has much more fresh water than it will need. If it gets bad enough, we could buy and pipe it in from there.
IF that happens, then I agree with your opinion regarding the impact on the economy.
IF that happens.
It's not a question of IF, it's a question of WHEN.
I'm sure if you described the Dust Bowl to midwestern farmers in the 1920's, they would have laughed and said that just wasn't possible.
Things we were told WHEN it happens
1.) Oil running out
2.) Phosphate sources running out
3.) Any number of available resources running out.
Actually, domestic peak oil was predicted extremely accurately by the CEO of one of the major oil companies (Shell, I think). I think he predicted it in the late 1950's that it would happen in the early 1970's. and I think it happened around 1972. People at the time laughed at his prediction and said he was crazy. No way would the oil wells in Texas and elsewhere dry up. But they did.
but now more oil is being produced than we have infrastructure to transport or refine and phosphate production worldwide is at record highs with new sources constantly being identified.
should the US producers be able to export crude oil? if not why not? should we also limit exports on other resources?
I wonder if it would take as long for a water pipeline to be approved as it has taken the keystone pipeline?
Yes I know there is a difference between water and oil.
I think the U.S. should be allowed to export oil. It brings dollars into an economy that has been hurt for years by a severe trade deficit. It is a commodity like anything else. Ideally, you would rather export more value-added products, but the democrats in power, from Clinton to Pelosi to Obama, don't seem to have much support for manufacturing.
The key is to become less dependent on oil. That helps both the short-term economy and the long-term energy needs. Fracking will not provide an endless supply of oil or natural gas. We need to start nuclear power plants and other options, but we also need to use a lot less energy. If that means a tax on oil, and higher taxes on electricity, then I can live with that. We'll pay more eventually when fossil fuels start to run out. The democrats have largely failed with their horrible legislation to jack up auto efficiency in 2025. It is very immature to pass the buck to a future generation like that. It is very similar to delaying Obamacare until after the people who supported it can get re-elected.
Just now finding out about the fountains of the deep? Old news!
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights."(Gen 7:11-12 KJV)
$156 a year just to take a shower! Forgetaboutit!
Those were the days... back before we had all this synthetic crap in our food and poison in the air.
Then again, I'd probably just be bored after the first 500 years.
fossil fuels are nowhere near the point of depletion. not even close.
we had 200 years worth of natural gas reserves recognized 2 years ago. since then, the amount of nat gas discovered has went up exponentially. we have so much nat gas that there are literally thousands of wells across the country shut in due to lack of demand. we could eliminate imported oil if we converted our big rigs and fleet vehicles to nat gas but instead we build windmills.
small but typical example of what is happening is the bakken. 3 years back it was believed that the oil companies would be able to recover appx 500k barrels of oil per drilling spacing unit (1280 acres). This was based on one well per dsu into the one known viable formation (middle bakken) Today, the companies are proving up 4 different formations capable of supporting 16 - 20 wells per dsu with wells averaging 700k barrels per well. They have went from 500k barrels per 1280 acres to 14 million barrels per 1280 acres. And that is still leaving over 90% of the oil in place and leaving 2 - 4 other formations under that same 1280 acres untapped.
raising the cost of energy will only serve to put the US economy at a greater competitive disadvantage. The only reason we are able to compete right now is because our cost of energy is so much less than the rest of the industrialized world. we currently pay appx. 1/5 of what the rest of the world pays for nat gas. this golden goose of low cost energy is the only thing that has kept us from being in a much worse position than we already are so I have to disagree that raising the cost of energy is a viable plan of action. raise the cost of energy and many of those manufacturing jobs that have returned to the US will leave the US again.
the largest shale oil deposits currently known to exist in the USA have not even been tapped yet (Monterrey shale) and there are new shale deposits constantly being discovered or completion methods being refined to get more energy out of the known deposits. Currently, most shale oil systems only recover between 5 and 10% of the oil in place. technology will change this too.
ultradeep drilling into vast amounts of natural gas and nat gas liquids is in it's infancy but the pressures and volumes of available resources are off the charts. none of those resources are currently viewed as proven reserves as the technology to recover them is still being invented.
add in methane hydrates from the sea floor and there are hydrocarbon resources available for hundreds and hundreds of years to come.