VA Rationing

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, May 14, 2014.

  1. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    Please provide us the source(s) that support your numbers as I've not seen them anywhere else. Social Security pays out approx $820B/year, substantially more tharen the approx $550B paid out in Medicare benefits. Where are these "extra 200 plus million that it is currently not covering" going to come from? There are about 330 million people living in the US. There are about 50 million covered by Medicare and around 260 million covered by private insurance. Are you expecting those on Medicare to live another 40-50 years or long enough for 60% of those with private coverage to retire and go onto Social Security. If we're to have a rational debate we need some back up. Thanks.
  2. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    ???

    For one my 200 plus million appears to be 260 million that you want covered by a single payer government. So please do tell how we are going to pay for that considering...

    http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html

    Medicare would last one year if it was lucky unless it required you (assuming you are not on Medicare and working), I and every other person under 65 (and those over 65 and working) to pay FICA.

    In other words. It requires redistribution to stay afloat. The numbers are what they are!
  3. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    It appears that you're confused. While I'm not on Medicare I'm very familiar with a half dozen single payer plans, primarily in the EU and Canada. I'm guessing that you believe that in the unlikely event we were to abandon the ACA for a single payer everyone would come in like a thief in the night and bankrupt the governments overnight. Again, I can only guess where you're coming from but surely you know that every western nation has converted to universal coverage (either single payer or, like the ACA a regulated utility model using private insurers) in conjunction with a premium payment (eg, Medicare; Switzerland; the Netherlands; etc) or higher taxes (UK). None of these nations have anything close to our economic strength yet each has functioned with some type of universal coverage for at least half a century and I'm not aware that any have gone bankrupt. If my guesses are at all accurate then please identify the nations that have exhibited what you fear. If my guesses are off-base please take a moment and provide a more cogent description of your point. By the way, Medicare is funded through 2024. That's not as reassuring as I'd like as I'll be eligible within the next 4-5 years but it is better than the one year you mentioned.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    So we are going to tax the mess out if people and begin letting bureaucrats ration care. Sounds like a system that has a doctor/patient relationship I do not want. The great thing about my HSA is that I foot the bill unless something catastrophic happens (well our almighty government is requiring I let Florida Blue be a middle man for a few things they should not have to be). My doctor knows this and there is really nothing that gets in our way. Add to it I want people like my aunt to have the ability to begin treatment on her cancer the day after it is diagnosed like she was able to do...

    Medicare is funded by redistribution. Stop taxing you, I and the rest of us not receiving a benefit (go ahead and tax the very few over 65 and working) and Medicare lasts a year if it is lucky. I posted the link so you can see how much is in the trust fund. It inky stays afloat by redistributing.

    All that said there is plenty we could do to help with cost. I am nit sure we can get them down a whole lot as of now as Americans seem to demand healthcare and high quality at that. Not a cheap thing! But having insurance companies be insurance companies (HSA/selling across state lines/etc), getting clinics open form the minor things (allowing NP/PA to own and operate them), tort reform, etc would help.

    Here is a good plan...

    http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Ben_Carson_Health_Care.htm
  5. gatorman_07732
    Online

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    30,428
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +3,835
    That's not what we're talking about, we're talking about a single payer for all and that won't work in this country. Medicaid and the VA are proof of that, both of which exhibit rationing. Medicare exhibits a different problem because under the current form is unsustainable. More direct doctor-consumer model is the only way to go and how to get costs under control.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    You do realize that all insurance is based on "redistribution". I'm lucky enough to enjoy good health and haven't had more than annual check-up in years yet I still have the same premium and my colleague who is not so fortunate.
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. ufdocco
    Online

    ufdocco Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Greeley, CO
    Ratings Received:
    +356
  8. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    Reading anything written by Michelle Malkin is rarely easy for me (is she ever happy about anything?) but this article was almost an exception to the rule. She made a number of good points. The one that stood out was the structural inefficiencies throughout the system. You have a facility like Haley in Tampa that is bursting at the seams and going 24-7 and then see Congress fund a Taj Mahal facility in Mississippi with floors that look like ghost towns. An example of politicians "bringing home the bacon" trumping funding patient care. Not unlike our elected leaders requiring the Pentagon to keep obsolete bases open or weapon systems funded long after they've run their useful life. Politics is just messy and dirty, but I've yet to run into a system that I think is better.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    Really? Duh insurance uses premiums to pay for losses...

    Insurance is suppose to cover catastrophic loss. Paying an insurer $70 so they can pay your doctor $60 form checkup is inefficient and a waste. I am fine if you want to pay the insurer for that with higher premiums. But forcing everyone to is ridiculous.
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  10. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    If someone is a male and wants to buy maternity coverage...by all means. But dont force people to pay for a product they do not want or need (male or female)...
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    Was that supposed to be a response to my post?
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. rajinGator
    Offline

    rajinGator VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    12,058
    Likes Received:
    338
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Orlando
    Ratings Received:
    +901
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1
  13. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    Yes and the deflection attempt to say insurance is based on redistribution.

    Insurance is a product meant to protect one form a major loss. And you attempted to diminish that reality. But hey. Maybe you like the fascist road we are headed down with corporate insurers and providers running the show. They love the idea of being the middleman. They are going to make money so if daddy government can force people to buy coverages they don't want or need...the insurance company gets to line it's pockets with more money.
  14. icequeen
    Offline

    icequeen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    1,941
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings Received:
    +2,919
    During Nam my dad was shot down, then was in a Texas military hospital for three months. He went to a couple of VAs early on. His view on the VA? If he's dying and the only facility nearby is a VA hospital, he wants to be left on the side of the road to die with a good book to read while it happens. Not the only vet I know who feels that way about the VA.


    As for the rationing of care, we're getting a lot of patients who now have "government" insurance who are showing up for their 6 month injections (so they had theirs in November/December) who are being told that those are no longer covered. So instead of very helpful injections, these patients are now going on narcotics that they didn't want to be on in the first place, or moving on to surgeries that they have to pay a rather large copay for.

    Oh, and a guy next to me at Target's pharmacy was getting a prescription refilled, and he was screaming that in December the copay was $15, and that this time his portion was over 300 DOLLARS. She was trying to explain to him his new insurance had a higher deductible, and he was really ticked off, including screaming "oh like I can get back on my old one!" He LEFT THE MEDICATION THERE.

    But, hey, it's for the greater good, right?
  15. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    Do you ever read your replies before posting them?
  16. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    You are excellent at deflecting...
  17. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    I get insurance uses redistribution. But that has nothing to do with he purpose of the product. Something you are trying to deflect from...
  18. tim85
    Offline

    tim85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,079
    I'll put this here.

    Veterans scandal risks engulfing Obama

    "Amid contrived outrage overBenghazi and the improving fortunes of its healthcare reform, the Obama administration could be facing a genuine scandal about its treatment of military veterans that has the potential to attract broad political condemnation of its competence.

    The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is mounting evidence that some of the hospitals it runs have been keeping two sets of books to make it look as if they were reducing waiting times to see a doctor."

    More damning, the department is investigating the claims of a whistleblower doctor in Arizona that dozens of patients at one hospital died while they were languishing on a hidden waiting list without ever being given an appointment"

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/328546c0-dd10-11e3-8546-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31z0qBooF
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    Trust me, I'm just trying to understand your point. Is it about redistribution through taxes? Are you questioning why ACA funnels everything through insurers? I can't enter the debate until I know the issue and which side you've taken. Heck, we might agree on something.
  20. QGator2414
    Offline

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,611
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +515
    btw...

    You do realize the federal government never taxed (collected enough premiums) those now receiving benefits on Medicare enough to pay for the benefits it is providing?

    Hence real redistribution of penalizing others. Not "redistribution" of funds in which people pool their money in order to reduce the risk of catastrophic financial loss at their will...

Share This Page