VA Rationing

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, May 14, 2014.

  1. G8trGr8t
    Online

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    15,246
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +2,915
    I guess this is how their numbers looked good, They just made them up as they saw fit. On a personal note, I had a cousin who saw combat duty and was discharged from Army post Iraq war. He was suicidal for years, depressed, etc. He would get a 15 minute psych eval once a year and a fistful of prescriptions. His battle ended 14 months ago when he took his own life. VA did nothing to help and multiple things to worsen his situation. The level of frustration with the system was through the roof.

    I suspect that if/when gubmnt gets more involved of rationing dollars we will see lots of made up numbers telling us how great the service is while we sit in line.

    Internal memos show the VA has been playing whack a mole for at least six years with employees who use dozens of different scheduling tricks to hide substantial delays in health care for America’s veterans. And whenever the VA tries to stop its staffers from “gaming the system,” the staffers come up with new techniques.
    Whistleblowers around the country are now accusing the VA of hiding a backlog in patient care with bookkeeping tricks, and a former doctor at a VA facility in Arizona says the delays may have contributed to the deaths of 40 patients.


    In an April 26, 2010 memo, the VA’s deputy undersecretary for health administrative operations, William Schoenhard said, “It has come to my attention that in order to improve scores on assorted access measures, certain facilities have adopted use of inappropriate scheduling practices sometimes referred to as ‘gaming strategies.’ … This is not patient centered care.”

    Schoenhard then listed two dozen different tactics identified in a 2008 study that facilities around the country were using to cut down on the officially recorded time that patients had to wait for care.

    The techniques included pretending that appointments cancelled by the clinic were cancelled by the patient, and refusing to schedule appointments for patients when there was no appointment available within 30 days. Patients were told to wait a month and then call back.

    Two of the techniques described in the memo closely resemble the methods described by the whistleblowers who have gone public recently with claims that VA facilities have disguised actual patient waiting time.

    The 2010 memo discusses how a written appointment log book can be used to avoid entering long wait times into the electronic waiting list system, and forbids the use of any written log. Dr. Samuel Foote, the Arizona whistleblower, now says that as recently as 2013 the Phoenix VA was using paper records with actual patient wait times to avoid entering those wait times into the official electronic system.

    The 2010 memo also describes how staffers manipulated the “Desired Date” of a patient’s appointment. The date the patient wants to see a doctor is supposed to be entered as the “Desired Date,” but those dates are often sooner than a doctor is available. Facilities were able to hide the difference between what the patient wanted and what the patient got, according to the memo, by either entering the wrong date, neglecting to enter any date or entering the earliest available date as the patient’s desired date.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/va...ers-have-been-gaming-system-six-years-n104621
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Gatorrick22
    Offline

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    35,014
    Likes Received:
    2,839
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,011
    Another form of lying by the Obama administration... err... propaganda machine. More scandals...
  3. fastsix
    Offline

    fastsix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,822
    Likes Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Seattle
    Ratings Received:
    +1,330
    "Internal memos show the VA has been playing whack a mole for at least six years..."
  4. Gatorrick22
    Offline

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    35,014
    Likes Received:
    2,839
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,011
    So, that only means Obama has done nothing to fix it. Business as usual... and kick the can down the road.
  5. fastsix
    Offline

    fastsix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,822
    Likes Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Seattle
    Ratings Received:
    +1,330
    No that mens pretending the problem is with Obama and the not the VA does veterans no favors, but continue on...
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. tim85
    Offline

    tim85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,173
    As many of us have said, Obama is just a symptom, not the problem. I debated with others on here about the VA, it's supposed to provide a great service, and for many it does, that doesn't mean it's not inefficient and shitty at times. The more we keep thinking a grand entity like our federal government is going to be responsible or organized enough to run competently and efficiently the more we'll keep seeing our programs fail.
  7. Gatorrick22
    Offline

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    35,014
    Likes Received:
    2,839
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,011
    All of the agencies have Obama flunkies in charge, so you can continue to... dream on about who is/isn't to blame.
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  8. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,655
    Likes Received:
    2,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,276
    I posted this thread a few days ago, but to all the single payer fans this is what you get.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    I won't go into the numerous polls among vets that show that their level of satisfaction rivals what we feel about our private-pay/insurance system. I definitely won't defend the horrible actions that are alleged. However I will challenge the thought that the VA is the best indicator for a single payer system. Gman, did you forget about Medicare? Far more beneficiaries and I believe far higher satisfaction among those beneficiaries compared to our private pay/insurance system.
  10. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,655
    Likes Received:
    2,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,276
    You conveniently left out Medicaid
  11. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    So did you, and probably for the same reason - virtually no one has ever proposed it as the basis for a single payer plan.
  12. G8trGr8t
    Online

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    15,246
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +2,915
    is medicare spending sustainable??

    run the satisfaction results again in 2 years when the 0care cuts have been implemented and the doctors have quit taking it.
  13. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,655
    Likes Received:
    2,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,276
    Wut? Single payer is single payer. We see the result of it with the VA and Medicaid. Do you actually thing you can turn the whole system to single payer and it's going to work like Medicare?
  14. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    In a word, yes. I'm not sure we'll ever go beyond the current system where insurers will be regulated like utilities. Look around. All of our trading partners have adopted either a single payer or our regulated utility model with results that rival and in most cases exceed the objective and subjective criteria used to measure. We have far more wealth and resourcefulness than any of them. I am completely confident that your children will look back at these years in much the same way we look back at the years leading up to the passage of Medicare and can't believe those that fought it. In the end it's what business wants and business demands predictable costs.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,655
    Likes Received:
    2,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,276
    I hate to tell you but our current Medicare system is unsustainable.
  16. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    And I hate to tell that it will not be allowed to fail. The pubs know that if they are painted as standing in the way of maintaining Medicare in its current form or something substantially similar, they are done. Providers and big pharma will see smaller and smaller payments, and "means testing" will play a larger and larger role. That means that wealthier retires will pay even more than they do today and there will likely be a graduated feature to the tax on earned income (eg, current rate doubles for compensation that exceeds $***,000). The 47% and their children who would have to take them in will not give up this entitlement.
  17. gatorman_07732
    Offline

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    32,655
    Likes Received:
    2,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Irish Riviera
    Ratings Received:
    +5,276
    So this comes down to smearing and not what's best for the country.
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1
  18. dirigo
    Offline

    dirigo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +23
    I'm not sure what you meant with the term "smearing". On the other hand I believe that you'd be in the minority if the question, "should the richest nation in the history of the world provide a healthcare program for its elderly?" was put to a vote. What we're really talking about is money, isn't it?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. QGator2414
    Online

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    13,229
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +738
    Please do explain how the government who is keeping the one insolvent healthcare program (Medicare/Medicaid) afloat by redistribution of the future generations weath will pay for an extra 200 plus million people that it is currently not covering?

    Trust me I can believe those that fought Medicare. It makes SS look like pennies with regards to redistrbution!
  20. QGator2414
    Online

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    13,229
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +738
    As long as some get theirs they could care less what we leave our kids...

    Sad!
    • Like Like x 1
    • Boring Boring x 1

Share This Page