US increases citizenship renunciation fee from $450 to $2,350

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by JerseyGator01, Sep 1, 2014.

  1. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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  2. Gatormb
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    Hmmm, immigrant visa fees drop and citizenship renunciation goes UP 500%?
  3. BigCroc
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    BigCroc Premium Member

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    "Documenting a U.S. citizen's renunciation of citizenship is extremely costly, requiring U.S. consular officers overseas to spend substantial amounts of time to accept, process, and adjudicate cases. The fee for processing renunciation of citizenship, which had previously been subsidized, is now reflective of the true cost."

    And the problem with this is?
  4. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Stay and Obey. At least no Soviet style exit visas.
  5. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    you figure the increase will discourage a lot of people who would otherwise renounce their US citizenship?
  6. LittleBlueLW
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    LittleBlueLW Premium Member

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    No problem with this. Hell, raise it tenfold.
    After all, only rich hollywood celebs and some long gone TH posters actually claim they are leaving because xxxxxxx got elected.
  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    There are no convenience-neutral changes to government policy, let alone tax or fee structures. This makes it... easier, or harder? It is a truism that anything you tax, you get less of it, that is the guiding star of social engineering taxes like cigarettes or even carbon.
  8. OklahomaGator
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    OklahomaGator Moderator VIP Member

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    Make it the higher of $2,350 or the average of their last 3 years of federal income taxes.
  9. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    you didn't answer the question, of course. and it's obvious why. you claimed the increase was a way to make people stay and obey. But I doubt anyone, including you, believes that a decision as major as renouncing your US citizenship will hinge on a couple of thousand dollars.
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  10. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I actually did answer the question, just fired a bit over the bow maybe. The cost benefit analysis changed, by definition that is going to weigh heavier against doing it, don't care who you are. Maybe in the leftist caricature where anyone who doesn't lurve Obama's America has liquid assets north of $50 million, it wouldn't discourage anyone, but this world is not that one.
  11. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's exactly it. It's certainly been my impression that those on Too Hot and elsewhere who are convinced Obama is a Kenyan-born Muslim bent on destroying the U.S. ... you know, the ones you see in the Tea Party videos and responding to the martial law video on the other thread ... that those folks are all highly intelligent, educated and successful people, each with a net worth of $50 million or more.
    I mean, how could anyone think otherwise?

    I repeat: You can't make this stuff up.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
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  12. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    You really think that there is some huge group of people out there who would love to renounce their citizenship if only it weren't for having to pay an extra $1,900 once?

    For almost any case, if $1,900 is a deal breaker they screwed up something in their cost benefit analysis to think that renunciation was a net positive for them in the first place.

    Even for the marginal cases where, in a quantifiable costs only analysis, they may have realized a small net benefit previously but now won't because of the increased fees, you really think someone was going to take a step as drastic as renouncing their citizenship because, over the course of their remaining lifetime, it might have saved them $2,000?
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  13. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is called "charging what you can" and it pretty much defines taxing in general. Why do cigarettes cost so much? Because there are increased health costs that need to be funded? Sorry but the answer is no. It is because...those addicted to cigarettes will pay it. I presume that the OP's fee structure is saying that we don't want to be a hindrance to poor people who want in the country but if you really want out then you are willing to pay much more.

    Personally, I would just sell my house, take my funds over the border and then find out what the US is going to do about it. Extradite you? Talk about bad press.
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  14. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    What you would actually find out would be how hard it is to keep your funds out of the US financial system, no matter where in the world you are located.

    If the government really wanted to come after you, transferring currency out of the United States with the intent to commit tax evasion and failing to submit a foreign bank account report could constitute an attempt to defraud the United States and fall within the scope of the federal money laundering statutes.

    If the money laundering statutes are violated, asset forfeiture comes into play. DOJ previously ran into an issue where it was tough to seize money deposited into foreign financial institutions, even if that financial institution maintained a correspondent account in the United States, because the bank would assert that the funds in the correspondent account were their funds and raise the innocent owner defense. The Patriot Act changed that.

    Now the civil forfeiture statute provides that if funds involved in a violation of the money laundering statute are deposited into an account at a foreign financial institution and that foreign bank maintains a correspondent (or "interbank") account in the US (and nearly every foreign bank does), the funds involved in the money laundering violation may be legally deemed to have been deposited into the correspondent account in the United States and the government can seize a corresponding amount of funds from the foreign bank's correspondent account, without being required to trace the funds actually present in the correspondent account directly to the deposit in the foreign bank.

    What does that mean? Under certain circumstances if you transfer funds out of the United States with the intent to commit tax evasion, deposit them into a foreign bank, and conceal the existence of those accounts from the IRS, the government may be able to seize that amount of funds from the correspondent bank account maintained in the US by your foreign bank. Obviously if that happens, your foreign bank is going to take the seized funds out of your account with them.
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  15. mutz87
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    Go Patriot Act!!! er...
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  16. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    Many of the people who renounce are already living overseas, many without great jobs (due to marrying someone from another culture, retiring to a cheaper country, etc.). They have trouble getting a job or benefits in their new country without citizenship, and they sometimes wind up owing taxes in both countries.

    The celebrity cases of renouncing citizenship are far outnumbered by the situation I described above. So, yes, it does make a difference how much you charge.
  17. fredsanford
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    Whatever the amount ends up being, quadruple it.
  18. Spurffelbow833
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    Yet.
  19. Spurffelbow833
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    Now here's a public assistance program conservatives would go along with. Charge the poor less to leave the country.
  20. ArtDeco
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    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you quadruple the fees on the illegals coming in, Fred? Oh, right, four times zero is still zero.

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