UPS cuts spousal coverage - blames Obamacare

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PSGator66, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. PSGator66
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    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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  2. Gatorrick22
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    :laugh::laugh::laugh:

    Freaking teamsters.
  3. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    While bad cutting back is bad it is not as bad as cutting it out entirely which is the conclusion you could draw if you only read the title of the thread.


  4. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Is it legal to add nearly 30,000 new pages to Obama-scam?
  5. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    If you're referring to regulations, yes, without question. In fact it is the normal process for pretty much anything remotely complex the federal government does and Congress would be too bogged down in implementation details to do anything at all without it happening.

    Legislators aren't technical experts in everything (or really even much of anything) that they deal with, so they hold hearings to get enough of a background to vote on a broad regulatory framework and then delegate authority to agency subject matter experts to implement it.
  6. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    :no::no::no:

    It's not legal. It's like rewriting a contract after you sign it.
  7. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not in Rickland, but in the US it absolutely is.

    See, e.g, (amongst many, many others) Mistretta v. United States, 488 U.S. 361, 371-73 (1989) (emphasis added, all modifications in original)

  8. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    That can be overturned or ruled not to be a precedent in the case of a new entitlement if it gets back to this SCOTUS.

    Plus these new pages fundamentally changes the original law.

    Is the congress changing the ACA law? Or is Obama and his friends changing the law?

  9. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    I guess it in theory could, but there is a very near-zero chance of the Supreme Court overruling the idea of broad categorical regulatory authority governed by a legislative "intelligible principle." Why? Because nearly nothing works without it. Nearly everything any administrative agency has ever done disappears if you cut into that in a meaningful way, and there's lots you don't want to have suddenly disappear (i.e., pretty much everything the FDA has ever done to ensure the safety of drugs and medical devices under broad statutory authority, for example).

    Heck, the Massachussetts v. EPA case in 2007 didn't even question whether the delegation of powers to the EPA in the Clean Air Act violated the non-delegation doctrine, in fact they held that the EPA had not only the authority to regulate CO2 emissions, they had a duty to do so. And if anything the Court is more liberal now than it was in 2007.

    If you're counting on the Court suddenly reversing a century of precedent on non-delegation in Agency cases to suddenly reach the "Rick law" of "every detail has to be in the bill and an agency can't fill in details within an intelligble statutory framework" you're setting yourself up for monumental dissappointment.
  10. MichiGator2002
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    Wouldn't it be more precise to say that massive bloating of federal oversight into all sorts of areas it was never designed nor intended to go wouldn't work without it? And that, once consecrated by an unfortunately too-willing Court, perhaps itself too of a statist/technocratic progressive bent, there is just no uprooting it?

    The very sight of a printed copy of the CFR sort of mocks the proposition behind our proposition nation.

    Which is all to say, that it is legal makes it no less of a traveshamockery and disasterbacle.
  11. asuragator
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    Again rick with the regulatory misunderstanding? Ben explains it pretty clearly and it's not just a matter of opinion but a matter of fact on how things operate.
  12. DaveFla
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    I told you so.......
  13. VAg8r1
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    According to the linked article, which is extremely slanted by the way, only 92% of companies will be offering spousal coverage. And one more point, the companies that will be dropping spousal coverage will be dropping it for those spouses who can obtain coverage from their own employers. Stay-at-home wives or househusbands need not worry about losing their coverage.

    In other words, if a spouse cannot obtain coverage from his/her employer the company will still offer spousal coverage.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Gatorrick22
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    You must have missed the part that explicitly said that changes must be made by the congress. I wonder which Senators/congressman are involved in the 30,000 new pages being added?

    That ACA law cannot function as it was written... since when is it a matter of simple procedure to fundamentally change written laws without due process and/or Congressional oversight?
  15. gtr2x
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    gtr2x Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, another misleading headline jumped on by people with predetermined opinions. Also, the change only applies to a small percentage of their employees. One of the ladies who works for me has coverage thru her husband who works for UPS and nothing is changing for her.
    I like FedEx s response, pretty smart PR move.
  16. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Well to the degree that they require implementation by an Agency, NO law can function as it is written without at the very least implementation regs (because without regs setting forth how an agency adminsiters and enforces it, it can't be administered or enforced).

    That's sort of the entire way it works, Congress establishes a broad framework, intentionally leaves a bunch of blanks as to how details will work when implemented, and designates what agency is in charge of filling in the blanks...

    If you think voluminous detailed regulations are unique to the ACA, take a look at the regulations promulgated under any major piece of legislation. Heck if you really want to be blown away, look at the Treasury Regulations (Treas. Regs.). They're what implement the Internal Revenue Code and are so voluminous that they are referred to with a separate citation system from any other federal regulations.
  17. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting on the debt crisis sky to fall.

    What will be the new panty wad after this one has passed.
  18. uftaipan
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    uftaipan Well-Known Member

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    UPS should tread lightly. It's racist thoughtcrime to criticize the "Affordable Care Act."

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