Universal national service for Americans 18-28

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mocgator, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. mocgator
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    mocgator Well-Known Member

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    Of course in the liberal paradise all young people would be indoctrinated... I mean educated.. I mean serve for the government. Hello George Orwell... and welcome to Obama's America..

    http://spectator.org/archives/2013/06/25/coming-next-an-obama-corps-for

    Universal national service for Americans 18-28 is the goal of the most prestigious gathering of the Establishment so far this year, an invitation-only “Summit” presently taking place at the Aspen Institute in Colorado (June 24-25). Two hundred of the shiniest names in philanthropy, government, business, and media — including a sprinkling of Republican notables — will be there to make a year of national service “a common expectation…for all young people.”

    I have been an opponent of universal national service for nearly a half century. Some of my earliest allies were Milton Friedman, Martin Anderson, Donald Rumsfeld and Bob Bartley. We all saw that to the extent universal national service is idealistic it is misconceived. From an economic standpoint, it is a wasteful tax on time. Socially speaking, it is a disguised welfare program. Politically it is a way to supply workers for government-favored organizations.

    It is, finally, a way to defer adulthood even further.
  2. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    Don't conservatives admire Israel and how they do things?
    Isn't mandatory service to the country a requirement in Israel for decades now?

    Wouldn't you rather see people do mandatory govt service for pay than see those same people unemployed and getting gubment handouts.

    Shame on you for not wanting people to be patriotic enough to work for their country.....be it in the military or some other work that strengthens America(universal service would be great way to improve infrastructure in much the same sort of way as the public works programs of FDR). I hear lot about infra structure should be left to corporations to do. But those corporations really haven't been lining up to do those projects(due to lack of profit in the short term)

    Sounds to me like you are one of those people who wants a great America but not willing to do his fair share of roll up the sleeves work to maintain and improve America.

    next thing is you'll be wanting food stamps
  3. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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  4. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    like for a period of a something like 2-4 years. With the age of the people to be in the 18 years of age to 28 years of age.

    I personally have wanted to see the U.S. require service to the country for every citizen before they can vote for decades now. They have such universal service in Israel and it seems to help the person as well as the country.

    That those who choose not to go to college or don't get accepted into college they would enter the service at 18 years of age or upon graduation from HS. For those who go to college--they are deferred from the service for the time they pursue their A.S. , A.A. or bachelors degree for 6 years max. Upon completion of A.S. or A.A degree and unable to gain admission to bachelor program the person enters the service. For those who complete their bachelor degree they enter service upon graduation unless accepted to masters or doctorate program. Person who is professional student(taking six years or more for bachelor degree) they enter service at age 25.

    The article the OP cites refers to elitists wanting such a program. I believe the ones who are elitists are those who feel they should be exempt from service to their country
  5. gator7_5
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    gator7_5 Well-Known Member

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    WTF are you talking about?
  6. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I haven't really noticed a sharp ideological divide WRT to supporting or opposing national service or reinstating the draft. People on all ends of the spectrum seem to like or dislike the idea. It's not the worst idea around, but probably completely unnecessary.
  7. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    the draft is interesting. 1968, liberals protested the draft and conservatives defended it. Now, it's apparently a liberal idea.
    How'd that happen?

    Otherwise, the whole "Obama-corps" stuff is just the usual silliness.
  8. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    National service is fine in the form of the draft. Bad in the form of Peace Corp and the like. (sarcasm thoroughly intended)

    Seriously, mandatory national service is akin to slavery to the state. It has no business in a free society.

    I have no problem with making national service attractive to people... perhaps subsidizing college educational expenses for serving. Stuff like that.
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  9. oldgator
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    universal service appears to supposedly require the person to do service/work. for which they would be paid. One of the reasonable questions is just what sort of 'work' the person could end up doing.
    One poster appears to have automatically 'assumed' it would be Peace Corps type work. Likely domestically. Given the extent of areas in America both urban and rural that have needs that Peace Corps type workers do in other countries. That may be a good use of Universal Service people. Cleaning up stuff in major cities(ie--tearing down burnt out buildings, teaching single mothers how to care for their infants/children, etc). in rural areas their could be projects such as indoor plumbing for homes in rural areas that still have outhouses, building and staffing primary care clinics, etc)

    I believe Universal Service people could do manual labor repairing bridges, roads, damns, etc along with projects such as supplying labor for projects such as damns, canals, tunnels, port enlargement, etc.

    Question for OP who asserts that it is some sort of handout---how is doing an hours work for an hours wage a handout?
  10. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I understand this POV, but it does also sort of clash with an ancient and long-held understanding of citizenship. I think that's why there isnt a clear ideological gap on this.
  11. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    i don't believe anyone is talking about making it mandatory, other than the phony claim that it's 'universal.' The advocates are clearly talking about voluntary.
  12. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    sounds like some people on the board are freeloaders who want all the perks of being an American citizen without doing anything for it.

    My guess is our predecessors would be ashamed of you.
  13. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with voluntary service. Put it to use on needed infrastructure maintenance.
  14. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Personally, I think we should seriously curtail the professional military in favor of some form of relatively brief universal conscription. If conscientious objectors want to join the Peace Corps, so be it.
  15. OaktownGator
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    If by predecessors, you mean Jefferson, Madison and company, my guess is they would be shaking their heads, saying "how to hell did he get that out of what we wrote?" :joecool:

    As mentioned above, I have no problem with voluntary service. Compelled service is antithetical to the rights our country was founded on.
  16. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I am reminded of the social model posited by Heinlein in his "Starship Troopers" (his novels being half political satire and social commentary) -- where the rights of civic participation only came to those who served in the military for some period. But it was voluntary as well. I don't really like these constructs very much, though, including Israel's. I understand their fairly unique circumstance in the world from a practical standpoint, but we don't have those concerns here by any comparable degree.
  17. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    We should go to a draft system with no excuses other than health to keep you out of war.

    That way, the ones who lead, get to see their kids get killed for their war fever. It would limit in a great way the politician who wants war as long as someone else's kid has to fight it.
  18. 108
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    there will never be another draft

    you know why?

    would prevent wars
  19. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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  20. OaktownGator
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    rpm - while I am philosophically against that for reasons stated, you do make a good point.

    But if we ever do go back to a draft, there will no doubt be ample ability for people with money and connections to opt out. They wouldn't let it be enacted any other way.

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