Uh oh....standing his ground...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by outbackjack, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    A couple things...is death a reasonable punishment for theft? I would like to hear the lawyers chime on that one. I asked if he called 911 because is he was fearful for his life and family then that is the first thing to do especially after seeing someone in the yard. Otherwise, it seems like he is taking the law into his own hands. I wonder if those that bellow of the 2nd amendment are shocked that this person's sixth amendments rights may have been violated.
  2. ursidman
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    ursidman Well-Known Member

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  3. theorangebluewinagain
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    theorangebluewinagain Guest Premium Member

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    Shoot the MFer ask questions later. I know I wouldn't jump any fence and be in a back yard at 2Am if it wasn't mine or a friends. Safety comes first. Stupidity at best, most like criminal intent unfortunately has the ultimate price sometimes.
  4. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    Death is not a reasonable punishment for theft. If you are shooting someone to punish them, you are breaking the law. If you are shooting them to protect life or property, you may not be breaking the law.

    If you perceive an immediate threat, you would not call 911 first unless you had an unrealistic belief of how quickly police would respond. The first thing to do would be to try to protect yourself and your family.
  5. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    I completely think the kid was up to no good. I also believe you have the right to protect yourself and family. I also feel like there is a portion of gun owners that can't wait to actually use it on someone.
  6. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    Yep!
  7. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And a majority of that portion are criminals who illegally carry there guns looking for someone to rob. And since our justice system can't seem to keep violent criminals away from society maybe it is a good thing that so many law abiding citizens are also gun owners and ccw holders.

    When you can regulate the guns in the criminals hands...then we can talk about regulating the guns in law abiding citizens hands.
  8. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    I have mixed feelings about this.

    I totally understand where this guy is coming from and it's quite obvious the kid was probably up to stealing something, but overall, I do have reservations about shooting someone in your yard as opposed to when they're in your house.

    I don't know all the facts about this case though, but that aside, this kid climbed a fence onto this guy's property after 1am in the morning? If that's the case, I'd have to say the home-owner had the right to defend his property.

    My own personal advice to all gun owners? Don't shoot an intruder in your own yard especially if you don't feel immediately threatened by them. If I see them break into my car, and if I am in a position to confront them with armed force, it will be a quick tactical assessment of the situation that depend upon whether or not I feel the need to shoot them.

    If they run, well, I might threaten to shoot them if they do in the hopes I might be able to make a citizen's arrest, but I probably really won't. I can replace what ever they stole in the car instead of taking a life. In a small town like mine, the cops usually know who the trouble-makers are. OTOH, if they're not caught, they'll probably be back to rob your car again.

    I don't keep a lot of valuable stuff in my car anyway and it's a good policy not to. It's a temptation to the weak-minded. At least lock your stuff in the trunk out of sight.

    And NEVER keep a gun in your car when you park it and leave in your driveway. Carry your gun inside.

    If they're in your home, shoot them and don't hesitate, and if you pull that trigger, aim to kill. Wound them, and there's a good chance they'll come back to "get even".

    Almost ever case I've ever heard of someone who did not shoot an intruder in their home and allowed them to get away without being caught, the intruder eventually came back again. Sometimes, the intruder made the extra effort to be as stealthy and silent as possible and managed to sneak up on the home-owner and either injure, rape, or kill them.
  9. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    I agree to a degree, but the home owner also didn't know if the boy was armed or not either. That could have played a role too.
  10. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    Oh, you can use SYG if they're threatening you and you felt like you or your family's lives were in danger, but this case looks more like a tragic case of someone who should have shown more restraint.

    OTOH, this shooting would have never happened if this kid hadn't trespassed on this man's property too. The kid created the deadly situation with his own lawlessness, and lets not forget that.

    I'd like to see all the facts of this case though.
  11. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Some of you keyboard tough guys may want to actually read Florida's self-defense statutes if you own guns.

    I have a concealed permit, and I'm a pretty big supporter of Florida's SYG and Castle Doctrines, but you can't legally use deadly force to prevent theft or trespassing. Much of y'alls big talk, if actually done, would be a pretty open and shut case of at least manslaughter.
  12. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    I will again defer to those with legal expertise. When I hear the word "property" that can mean a lot of things. What is the difference between say a car and a potted plant? Are both not property? Deadly force seems overkill(excuse the pun). Didn't some lost foreign student get mistakenly shot by going to the wrong house for a party? Trigger crazy home owner killed an innocent kid. Pretty sure he was in LA also.
  13. reformedgator
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    reformedgator Premium Member

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    Although it can be pretty upsetting to get ripped off or vandalized, I'd like to think I wouldn't shoot someone unless I really had no choice in protecting myself or my families life. Most of us would be haunted for life knowing we ended someones life, justified or not.
  14. g8orbill
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    I have guns but I highly doubt I would have shot the kid if he was just on my property- I would have turned on the outside lights and tried to scare him off while my wife called 911-
    but in the end-this kid is totally responsible for his sitation
    • Like Like x 1
  15. madgator
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    madgator Well-Known Member

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    So what you're saying is that I can't shoot the golfers who come in my backyard to hit golfballs after hitting their tee shot 40-50 yards out of bounds?


    good thing I missed yesterday
  16. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    That's what I would have done bill....and if you went outside saw the kid coming toward you and he llomed lime he was reaching for a gun?

    This homeowner was awakened I the middle of the nivht by his dog. Look at his neighborhood. Look at the violence that has happened there by burglars. He goes to check o. His house looms out the door and sees a dark shadow moving toward him reaching for? A gun? Hankercheif? Cell phone? Who knows..but I doubt either of us would have hesitated to even think for second under those circumstances.
  17. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    That's good, because if you shot him just for being on your property you would be committing manslaughter.

    You can't use deadly force in defense of property. And to answer the question above, it doesn't matter how valuable the property is, that's always the rule.

    And the Florida statute defines a dwelling and a residence. A detached garage, yard, driveway, etc. don't qualify. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

    Takeaway? DON'T shoot someone for jumping your fence. You're committing a felony if you do.
  18. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Madgator
    Use a low power bb gun from behind a curtain. Snipe them in the leg. When someone comes to complain...blame it on yellowjackets. It works. Just don't ask how I know.
  19. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    The paranoia exhibited on here is pretty scary.
  20. outbackjack
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    outbackjack Premium Member

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    I am curious, I really don't know but would love to.

    What would be the end result in the following situation.

    You call 911 and tell them there's a guy over your fence, near your house, and it's 2 in the morning.

    You then turn the lights on and tell the kid you have a gun.

    The kid immediately runs.

    The cops show up 8 minutes later.

    Where does it go from there?

    I would assume you would describe the perp by size/clothing/etc. Probably very hard to get a face visual from that distance at that time.

    Would the cops really go and search for the kid, or would they say he's not here now, all has returned to normal.

    Let's say they did search and catch the guy.

    He's 14. What would happen next?

    Would he be back on the street within the week?

    Would the parents have anything done to them?

    I'm seriously asking because I don't know.

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