Uh oh....standing his ground...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by outbackjack, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    Wes makes a fair point that challenges the commonality among us.
    A posted sign?
    Okay, just English? (this is New Orleans). Creole? Spanish?
    Is this sign well lit? It's 2am.
    Are the letters large enough? (tough to read while you're jumping the fence).
    Short of having a neon sign running 24 hours Outbackjack has the point that the fence is the sign saying "stay the hell off my property."

    Separately - playing lawyer on the other side - What is imminent danger to your life? If someone jacks my car, worth $15,000, and I make $10/hour is it not fair to say they just took 1,500 hours of my life? (let's say there's no comprehensive insurance). At what point is it okay to take some "parts" of people's lives? Less than one year? Is it okay to steal $15,000 from the guy who makes $250,000/year but not okay to steal $15,000 from the guy who makes minimum wage because you're taking more of the latter person's life?

    Yes, it would be shame to have a small child retrieving a ball be injured; but, if we're going to play "what if" games, let's do it all around. Bottom line, short of a miracle - and I do believe they occur - this kid was headed for a life of crime, in and out of the criminal justice system. This is why, IMO, it was not an unreasonable assumption to shoot someone who has scaled your fence and is poking around your property at 2am. Hence the prhase "guts of a burglar" - there is danger when you're on someone else's turf.
  2. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    His POR is absolutely within the fenced area. If someone were to get injured on his property (ie, fedex guy coming to deliver and trips in a hole in the ground), he can be sued because he's responsible for his property. If that entire fenced-in area (heck the fence is included if within his property line) is his property in the sense of legality and liability, I see no reason why he wouldn't have a right to shoot.

    BTW, the "this is New Orleans" thing cuts both ways. There's no way that kid should've thought in that area, at that hour, that a homeowner might have a gun and use it, so maybe he should've thought twice about it.
  3. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    You can't shoot to kill for breaking the Rules of Golf. You can only wound.
  4. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    This is when the Joe Biden theory of home defense works...

    Although, you would probably get a summons for firing a weapon within the city boundaries...

    I would have chambered a round in my shotgun, loud enough for the punk to hear it... If that didn't drive him back over the dense, firing it over his he'd, then clambering the next round would surely have gotten his attention.

    The problem is, if this punk got away, the odds are that he would be back out doing the same thing within a couple of days.
  5. AndyGator
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    AndyGator Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, if this punk got away, the odds are that he would be back out doing the same thing within a couple of days.

    Not arguing with your statement at all, and in fact agree with your premise (shoot to scare first, then shoot to count). But I did find it humorous that you use the same reference that Zimmerman did.
  6. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Well-Known Member

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    I would have no problem if a neighbor hopped my fence to retrieve a ball, and I wouldn't expect much of a reaction the other way around. I'm just saying that if you are my neighbor and you intend to shoot in that scenario, you should be obligated to make that known. I don't know about 2:00 AM, but if there's a certain time when the trigger finger gets happy, that should be known too. I might even let that neighbor know that if he made a mistake, I might be spending the rest of my life in prison for murder. :devil:

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  7. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    kid was up to no good
    got shot in the process
    to the gun haters all that matters is the kid got shot-no matter the fact that he was up to no good

    as I constantly tell my children-bad decisions are usually accompanied by bad consequences
  8. GatorNorth
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    So if he owned 20 acres and the kid next door crossed the property line half a mile from his house he could have shot him because if the kid tripped the owner could have been sued? That's the logical extension of your argument but it makes no sense. The concept of imminent danger, proximity and surrounding circumstances will determine the outcome here, not where the property line is or where legal responsibility begins and ends.
  9. GatorNorth
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    We've told our daughter there are only 2 things that really matter in life-choices and consequence. Kid made a really bad choice. Got a really bad consequence as a result. A thousand factors will determine whether the shooter is guilty of murder, but had the kid made one different choice he'd be alive today.
  10. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    I'll just tell my kid not to climb people's fences unless that person has given them permission. I don't need a neighbor's warning to teach common sense and respect to my son.
  11. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    What I'm trying to extend is that if the guy can be sued for damages incurred on his property then he has a right to defend it. Obviously, at a half mile from his house he wouldn't have seen him. Pretty sure at that point if he has a security system or something he'd call the cops. Plus if you have a property THAT size you're not anywhere near New Orleans or somewhere that is that high in crime so you're not going to react the same. So yes, I agree with you the circumstances will dictate the outcome in this case. The argument I was making was simply for those who were saying his family wasn't in danger, or that he had no right to shoot the kid, etc.
  12. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    Did he call 911 first then shoot or shoot then call 911?
  13. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Like the USSC in their response to pornography... "I'll know it when I see it..."

    FTR, someone jumps my fence at 2 am, I am "seeing it."
  14. gatordee
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    Not to mention if the home owner was worried there might be more than one person out there. That would be a big concern for me.
  15. OB1
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    Our legal system has proven time and again that this is not true. Many have brought forth a lawsuit that was baseless and have won large sums. Awful narrow strip of property too! Just kidding!

    It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
  16. OB1
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    Does it matter?

    If you feel it does, why?

    It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
  17. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    This isn't the wild wild west and even if it were, people should still say something first before shooting.
  18. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    You're right. This isn't the "wild, Wild West." It's MUCH worse as now, before pulling the trigger, one has to worry about the media making you a monster even before the facts are allowed to play out.
  19. rounds
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    rounds New Member

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    The perimeter of the French Quarter today may be worse than the Wild, Wild, West.
    The homeowner, awakened by his dog, SAW the intruder reach for a weapon in his opinion and fired first to protect his family.
  20. el_lagarto
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    im unable to form an opinion until i know the races of the people involved.

    if you fire your gun, you take your chances with the law. go into any possible shooting scenario with this in mind. im all for killing aholes who trespass and are obviously up to no good.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/com...m-sentence-for-a-father-protecting-his-family

    but from a legal standpoint, this guys life is basically a coin flip now.

    guy shoulda called 911...IMO. tho im glad another dumbass is dead. i dont care how old he is. stay the fug off others peoples property.

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